Why go w/ a FOGGER?

[allthrottle]

It obviously gets better distribution than a plate, but I hear a plate kit hits harder, WHY?... Is there any E.T./MPH gains from a fogger?

[orangejuiced86]

I think the better distribution is the key part. When you get to higher levels of nitrous I would imagine its pretty critical that all the cylinders are getting the correct mixture to avoid damage.

I never understood why people say a plate hits harder. But apparently it does. Maybe its because the cylinders can pull in more of a mixture and amount rather then what is directly shot in in the cylinder and is more controlled??

[foxbodydave]

i would think i plate would hit harder because its pulling all the nitrous thru a 4150 sized opening. so youve got 200 hp crammed down the motor and with a fogger your only putting so much into each cylinder. like oj said distribution too. im no genius but thats what i think

[allthrottle]

i would think i plate would hit harder because its pulling all the nitrous thru a 4150 sized opening. so youve got 200 hp crammed down the motor and with a fogger your only putting so much into each cylinder. like oj said distribution too. im no genius but thats what i think

Ok, with DISTRIBUTION being the key factor... What HP(shot) range would one recommend to go with a fogger rather than a plate.

[Prostreet72]

Just an opinion, but if you are already spraying, I would start with the same size shot to see the difference. Then begin steping up. That would answer your original question.

It seems like the plate system has a better possibility of favoring a few cylinders due to the dumping effect into the plenum, where as the fogger has the same amount going to each cylinder. Maybe under 250hp shots, this is not an issue, but it seems like when you start using tone of spray you want it to be spread out evenly. Once again, just my take on it. I am using a fogger in the spring, but have used a plate for years on my drag boat.

[allthrottle]

Thanks guys

[99slverZ]

Through a plate or nozzles youre relying on the intake to distribute an even mix to each cylinder. Direct port/fogger gives the ability to tune each individual cylinder. For anything less than a 200 I wouldn't bother with the extra money, but if your spray big and often, its well worth the money. I don't know about "hitting" harder. I've use a progressive controller on my setup for a long time, so there is no hitting. :)

[1BADAIR]

hmmmm. just use both

[johnquick302]

the reason they say a plate hits harder is because nitrous is at 1000psi and fuel is only 6psi or so. with a plate its a longer distance to the combustion chamber so nitrous gets there before fuel and it feels like it hits harder because its lean for a quick second.. with a fogger its closer to the chamber and the fuel is right there so it wont bang as hard.

[Anthony]

i went from a double cross plate with 200 in it, to a pro fogger with 200,no other changes ie timing, fuel press, nothing, i even left the XX plate under the carb. and the car slowed down. more timing and fuel press took care of the lost time

[fogged10]

plate for me next season!

[99slverZ]

Ok, with DISTRIBUTION being the key factor... What HP(shot) range would one recommend to go with a fogger rather than a plate.

I wouldn't go over 250. I'm not sure on Fords though. There are people getting away with 200-300 shots through nozzles and plates on LSX engines with a regular LS "style" manifold. Most go to direct port after 250. I guess it depends on if your going to keep it on a safe tune or run it on kill mode all the time. Ask yourself, how much room are you going to leave for error? I would definitly leave a lot more when spraying that much through a plate.

[wheelz357]

Ok, with DISTRIBUTION being the key factor... What HP(shot) range would one recommend to go with a fogger rather than a plate.
with the right person tuning, i dont care what horsepower level, a fogger will go faster everytime on the same car

[Anthony]

glidden ran a plate style setup for MANY years, aka the duct tape special.

[johnquick302]

glidden ran a plate style setup for MANY years, aka the duct tape special.

but now he is going faster and has foggers on the car.

[Anthony]

but now he is going faster and has foggers on the car.

in a tube chassis car on bigger tires.

red/white car and black car were back half cars. not apples to apples. he stuck with the plate system for a LONG time.

[johnquick302]

in a tube chassis car on bigger tires.

red/white car and black car were back half cars. not apples to apples. he stuck with the plate system for a LONG time.

facts are facts. the fastest nitrous cars in the world have foggers on them.

[Anthony]

facts are facts. the fastest nitrous cars in the world have foggers on them.

plural is correct.

not arguing that point, as is it unrefutable.

but when glidden had his single plate kit on a cast intake.....he was the fastest, and he dominated cars with twin 4500's and double foggers

so they can be very fast.

[slostang]

if you want a hard hit out of the gate ,move the fogger nozzles up in the intake track closer to the carb,it will hit harder

[twistedstang]

It obviously gets better distribution than a plate, but I hear a plate kit hits harder, WHY?... Is there any E.T./MPH gains from a fogger?

yep, Im gonna need room

[fogged10]

yep, Im gonna need room

x2

[Sean]

having sprayed this much a ls style plastic plenum ram intake. It is best to limit the nitrous to no more then 175 in reality. You can get some screwy distrobution issues and fuel puddling.

With a plastic ls1 or the other OE plastic plenum ram style intakes or anything with a large plenum and long runners it is better not to spray nitrous in large quantity due to fuel puddling.

If you really want to spray that much get a fogger or goto a single plane.

I wouldn't go over 250. I'm not sure on Fords though. There are people getting away with 200-300 shots through nozzles and plates on LSX engines with a regular LS "style" manifold. Most go to direct port after 250. I guess it depends on if your going to keep it on a safe tune or run it on kill mode all the time. Ask yourself, how much room are you going to leave for error? I would definitly leave a lot more when spraying that much through a plate.

[nuttsgt]

Some good info here guys, keep it coming.

[99slverZ]

having sprayed this much a ls style plastic plenum ram intake. It is best to limit the nitrous to no more then 175 in reality. You can get some screwy distrobution issues and fuel puddling.

With a plastic ls1 or the other OE plastic plenum ram style intakes or anything with a large plenum and long runners it is better not to spray nitrous in large quantity due to fuel puddling.

If you really want to spray that much get a fogger or goto a single plane.


Actually, your wrong. Fuel puddling is almost non-existent in the LS style intake and this video proves it.

YouTube- 500+RWHP GTO, Thanks to Kinetic Motor Works, Nitrous Outlet, and FiberTuned Manifolds

There are literally hundreds of people spraying 200+ through Nitro Daves plate without a single issue. I ran 150 wet through a nozzle, and a 200 through the same setup for almost two years for no problem.

Unless...you think the video is fake and a company that dedicates its whole purpose to wet and dry nitrous system on all different vehicles is wrong. :headscrat Fuel puddling and some idiot pedaling a car with a wet kit without a WOT switch is two different things. That's usually where the term "Fuel Puddling" comes from. Am I say a plate or nozzle is better than direct port in any way shape or form? No.

[Sean]

Just a FYI. I have sprayed 250 through a plastic intake. I have the ashtrays to prove it is a problem anytime you'd like to come by and see them. We finally did get it to work with some unconvetional mods to the nitrous nozzle but even then there were still issues with some cylinder running lean and fat. We had to pull a extra 2 degree out of the tuneup to keep the engine happy. It starts creeping up around 175 and get progressively worse as you turn it up.


We went 9.69 on a single nozzle kit in the pinks car. we backed down the tuneup to 225 becuase things just got to harry at 250. Maybe the nitro daves plate works better ? doubt it I did a nitrous tune up for a guy last year using a similar plate from nx and around a 80 jet things got screwy.

thats hands on real world experience. If you start watching cylinder 3&5 you'll see it creep up. for some reason they get nailed with fuel so you have to run very lean tuneups and pull alot of timming.

Actually, your wrong. Fuel puddling is almost non-existent in the LS style intake and this video proves it.

YouTube- 500+RWHP GTO, Thanks to Kinetic Motor Works, Nitrous Outlet, and FiberTuned Manifolds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7MFvCfsoZs)

There are literally hundreds of people spraying 200+ through Nitro Daves plate without a single issue. I ran 150 wet through a nozzle, and a 200 through the same setup for almost two years for no problem.

Unless...you think the video is fake and a company that dedicates its whole purpose to wet and dry nitrous system on all different vehicles is wrong. :headscrat Fuel puddling and some idiot pedaling a car with a wet kit without a WOT switch is two different things. That's usually where the term "Fuel Puddling" comes from. Am I say a plate or nozzle is better than direct port in any way shape or form? No.

[99slverZ]

Just a FYI. I have sprayed 250 through a plastic intake. I have the ashtrays to prove it is a problem anytime you'd like to come by and see them. We finally did get it to work with some unconvetional mods to the nitrous nozzle but even then there were still issues with some cylinder running lean and fat. We had to pull a extra 2 degree out of the tuneup to keep the engine happy. It starts creeping up around 175 and get progressively worse as you turn it up.


We went 9.69 on a single nozzle kit in the pinks car. we backed down the tuneup to 225 becuase things just got to harry at 250. Maybe the nitro daves plate works better ? doubt it I did a nitrous tune up for a guy last year using a similar plate from nx and around a 80 jet things got screwy.

thats hands on real world experience. If you start watching cylinder 3&5 you'll see it creep up. for some reason they get nailed with fuel so you have to run very lean tuneups and pull alot of timming.

So you were running a 250 shot through a single nozzle? I don't know about puddling but I would say the distribution would be garbage. You aslo have to take into consideration the nozzle has to be at the perfect angle. Some of Nitro daves plate are a 360 degree spray design and spray it dead nuts even. I believe the newer ones aren't 360 though. I don't think you would of had with that plate or a dual nozzle kit from HSW or N20 Outlet. Mine was rock solid on a 200 through them though the converter didn't like it.

What NX plate was that? I don't recall ever hearing anyone running a NX plate. Here is some info on nitro daves..


The Nitrous Outlet GM EFI LSX plate systems are the only plate systems available that are capable of safely delivering a precise atomized mixture of nitrous and fuel into the intake plenum.

These plate systems were originally designed for racers competing in a class that stated you could only use a single nozzle discharge or plate with a single nitrous jet no larger than .093 thousands. These racers were having issues zapping spark plugs and hurting pistons due to the nitrous discharge not atomizing correctly into the air intake path and equally feeding each cylinder.

After over a year of R&D, three different designs, and a lot of real world racing experience Nitrous Outlet introduced the Nitrous Plate design that would revolutionize the racing industry.

Nitrous Outlet is the only company that has racers using a plate system safely injecting horse power levels over 300 hp through the front of the intake plenum. Our plate design has shown proven results time after time again.

Our billet nitrous injection plate is only ¾ thick with a factory O-ring gasket machined in. Our unique discharge design can safely introduce a hard hitting pattern into the intake plenum while still maintaining a clean reading on all the spark plugs proving our product delivers the results they designed to do.

A product designed for hard core racers that deliver proven results both on and off the track.



The EFI LSX Nitrous Plate System that Revolutionized the Nitrous Industry setting a standard that no other nitrous company can match.
Available with no bottle, black 10lb or 15lb bottle.
High flow 45 degree bottle valve with dual accessory ports.
Quality high flowing large solenoids with purge port design and limited lifetime warrenty.
Revolutionary nitrous discharge plate, machined from billet aluminum with six specially designed nitrous and fuel discharge ports capable of flowing over 400 horse power, factory O-ring gasket, black anodized and laser etched with Nitrous Outlet.
Quick release stainless steel bottle brackets.
Jetting from 50-200 HP.
Upgradeable to flow over 400HP.
Designed to work with todays fuels.
E85 Compatible with different jetting.

I'm thinking maybe since then they have come out with much more efficient products. People run 200+ on plates all day long without problems. Although I personally agree going to direct port if you have the loot to do so.


Here is a flow test of daves plate and some other dry nozzles... http://www.retrorelics.net/jim/Boards/Corvette/BenchFlow.wmv

[1BADAIR]

I wouldn't go over 200 without injectors being flowed and installed in the leaner cylinders. My maf kit has two 150hp kits. I will never go that high.
the Ls intakes are known for lean cylinders(7).IE they get more air. Well, since they get more air then that means they would get more n20 to. Bad things happen when 1 cyl gets a 25hp hit and another gets a 50hp hit.

[99slverZ]

I wouldn't go over 200 without injectors being flowed and installed in the leaner cylinders. My maf kit has two 150hp kits. I will never go that high.
the Ls intakes are known for lean cylinders(7).IE they get more air. Well, since they get more air then that means they would get more n20 to. Bad things happen when 1 cyl gets a 25hp hit and another gets a 50hp hit.

Agreed. I'm not saying 200 isn't a bad limit to say "ok anymore and I need direct port". I'm saying on LSX style intakes you can get away with a 200 or 250 for a very long time with a quality plate, and a good tune.

Now is this gonna be a reliable setup for your average joe who goes to Autzone and gets a set of TR6's and pulls 4 degrees out with his hypertech? No. :haha:

[1BADAIR]

6?s dam. i wouldnt run 7 's on a 200

[99slverZ]

6?s dam. i wouldnt run 7 's on a 200

I've seen it done many many times. I ran 6's on a 150 with 6 degrees pulled and a stock motor. Ran 6's on a 125 with 6 pulled on the current one with 93 octane and it was okay. When I go bigger I will definitly be throwin the 6's out. :lol:

[81 olds]

my sbc went 9.36 best hit ever with a plate with 275 hp jets. same sbc with a fogger went 9.18 best same jetting no other changes to the car . a fogger will require a different tune but it is a completely set up so it should .

[Sean]

If you watch cylinder 3&5 " I checked the last customer did have a nitro dave plate BTW" you will see fuel starting to pile up on those 2 runners. You can make it live but its not a good idea IMHO to try shooting more then 175 regardless of whose plate it is. The single nozzle system was turned into a plate spray bar setup BTW and it helped but it still sucked.

Fuel can and will puddle in the center of the plenum. I wish I had video of all the tests we did firing nitrous through the intake ahead of the TB. It's pretty scary.

Trust me people running 200+ shots on a stock intake are getting lucky. I have seen tons of motors burned up trying to shoot 150 shots. If lean up the tuneup to favor the 2 fuel heavest cylinder you can get it to work but its never going to be great.

Now a dry 250 shot. Yeah that should be ok but you'll still wind up with nitrous favoring several cylinders but if you have a way to tune up each hole its not so bad.

So you were running a 250 shot through a single nozzle? I don't know about puddling but I would say the distribution would be garbage. You aslo have to take into consideration the nozzle has to be at the perfect angle. Some of Nitro daves plate are a 360 degree spray design and spray it dead nuts even. I believe the newer ones aren't 360 though. I don't think you would of had with that plate or a dual nozzle kit from HSW or N20 Outlet. Mine was rock solid on a 200 through them though the converter didn't like it.

What NX plate was that? I don't recall ever hearing anyone running a NX plate. Here is some info on nitro daves..


The Nitrous Outlet GM EFI LSX plate systems are the only plate systems available that are capable of safely delivering a precise atomized mixture of nitrous and fuel into the intake plenum.

These plate systems were originally designed for racers competing in a class that stated you could only use a single nozzle discharge or plate with a single nitrous jet no larger than .093 thousands. These racers were having issues zapping spark plugs and hurting pistons due to the nitrous discharge not atomizing correctly into the air intake path and equally feeding each cylinder.

After over a year of R&D, three different designs, and a lot of real world racing experience Nitrous Outlet introduced the Nitrous Plate design that would revolutionize the racing industry.

Nitrous Outlet is the only company that has racers using a plate system safely injecting horse power levels over 300 hp through the front of the intake plenum. Our plate design has shown proven results time after time again.

Our billet nitrous injection plate is only ¾ thick with a factory O-ring gasket machined in. Our unique discharge design can safely introduce a hard hitting pattern into the intake plenum while still maintaining a clean reading on all the spark plugs proving our product delivers the results they designed to do.

A product designed for hard core racers that deliver proven results both on and off the track.



The EFI LSX Nitrous Plate System that Revolutionized the Nitrous Industry setting a standard that no other nitrous company can match.
Available with no bottle, black 10lb or 15lb bottle.
High flow 45 degree bottle valve with dual accessory ports.
Quality high flowing large solenoids with purge port design and limited lifetime warrenty.
Revolutionary nitrous discharge plate, machined from billet aluminum with six specially designed nitrous and fuel discharge ports capable of flowing over 400 horse power, factory O-ring gasket, black anodized and laser etched with Nitrous Outlet.
Quick release stainless steel bottle brackets.
Jetting from 50-200 HP.
Upgradeable to flow over 400HP.
Designed to work with todays fuels.
E85 Compatible with different jetting.

I'm thinking maybe since then they have come out with much more efficient products. People run 200+ on plates all day long without problems. Although I personally agree going to direct port if you have the loot to do so.


Here is a flow test of daves plate and some other dry nozzles... http://www.retrorelics.net/jim/Boards/Corvette/BenchFlow.wmv

[99slverZ]

If you watch cylinder 3&5 " I checked the last customer did have a nitro dave plate BTW" you will see fuel starting to pile up on those 2 runners. You can make it live but its not a good idea IMHO to try shooting more then 175 regardless of whose plate it is. The single nozzle system was turned into a plate spray bar setup BTW and it helped but it still sucked.

Fuel can and will puddle in the center of the plenum. I wish I had video of all the tests we did firing nitrous through the intake ahead of the TB. It's pretty scary.

Trust me people running 200+ shots on a stock intake are getting lucky. I have seen tons of motors burned up trying to shoot 150 shots. If lean up the tuneup to favor the 2 fuel heavest cylinder you can get it to work but its never going to be great.

Now a dry 250 shot. Yeah that should be ok but you'll still wind up with nitrous favoring several cylinders but if you have a way to tune up each hole its not so bad.


So lets agree on something, moral of the thread..buy a turbo? :haha:

[Sean]

So lets agree on something, moral of the thread..buy a turbo? :haha:

Yeah pretty much. :thumbsup:

but havin played with plates and nozzles with these intakes for a while. Its messy. Seriously whats a nitro dave kit cost anyways ? $800+ why not get a cold fusion direct kit ? $950 ? Plumb it yourself and rock.

[99slverZ]

Yeah pretty much. :thumbsup:

but havin played with plates and nozzles with these intakes for a while. Its messy. Seriously whats a nitro dave kit cost anyways ? $800+ why not get a cold fusion direct kit ? $950 ? Plumb it yourself and rock.

Not a fan of the Cold Fusion kits. Their jets are usually off. You use their nozzle kit and put 150 jets in it and the car picks up 220rwhp on a stock internal car. Most people would think sweet, but thats definitly not a good thing. Haven't seen any from their direct ports though, so that could be different.. Most people on the Tech use Nitro Daves or HSW direct port. Dave is around $1100 for a basic single stage direct port on a LS style intake. He does great work though.

[1faststang]

my boy switched from a plate to a fogger and went 5 tenths faster with 150 hp less nitrous and when my motor had a big shot plate shooting 375hp in a 2900lb car it went 155mph now in my 2950lb car with 20f / 24nos is 150 shot each kit have 2 kits so with a 300 shot which is less nos then was sprayed on a plate i picked up 20 plus mph i will never go back to a plate fogger all day long

[orangejuiced86]

my boy switched from a plate to a fogger and went 5 tenths faster with 150 hp less nitrous and when my motor had a big shot plate shooting 375hp in a 2900lb car it went 155mph now in my 2950lb car with 20f / 24nos is 150 shot each kit have 2 kits so with a 300 shot which is less nos then was sprayed on a plate i picked up 20 plus mph i will never go back to a plate fogger all day long

Did you have the plate with the current transmission set-up also?

[1faststang]

Did you have the plate with the current transmission set-up also?no i didnt but with the glide over the c4 he had without the 2 speedtech systems with nos proshot fogger which i took off and sold to steve at diamond shop on a 250 shot it went 12mph faster than him so with the extra 50 shot and the liberty i picked up 10 more mph some has to do with the liberty i would say also it has to do with how efficient speedtech systems are they are expensive but worth every dollar but when we get everything just right the liberty will help more 1 picked up on motor went 9.29 with the glide and picked up with the liberty but it has the wrong gear set for nitrous and i already bought 1 extra gear set went from 3.21 to a 3.12 but it need to be a 2.95 so i can shift at 9400 rpm and gear sets are $2500 for the ones i use so i will be putting that in soon so right now we can only shift at 8400 anything over that blows the tire off i pulled timing and shifted higher and ramped it back in with the 7531 box if went faster but thats just a bandage