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patman
09-14-2006, 01:50 PM
http://starbulletin.com/2006/09/13/news/story02.html

INTERNET: WATCHING AMERICANS DIE



This image from YouTube.com is of a soldier about to be shot by a sniper; the others shown below are bombings of Americans.


Web videos mock U.S. war deaths
Posted on YouTube.com, the clips include insurgent slogans and have been viewed thousands of times
By Christine Donnelly
cdonnelly@starbulletin.com
The wildly popular video-sharing Web site YouTube.com has dozens of videos purporting to show individual American soldiers being killed in Iraq, in what amounts to snuff films, overlaid with music and insurgent slogans.

Some of the videos, including ones of American soldiers purportedly being picked off by snipers or being blown up by improvised explosive devices, have been viewed tens of thousands of times each in the past few months. Some are posted in YouTube's "news and blogs" category, but others are listed under "entertainment" and even "comedy."

One shows what appears to be three U.S. soldiers in desert fatigues questioning Iraqi men in a street or alley as young boys mingle around. Suddenly, one soldier slumps to the ground, felled by a single bullet, as the children scatter. In another, a U.S. soldier is standing through the top hatch of a Humvee, then slumps over as the sniper strikes.

Their presence on YouTube shows that insurgent propaganda -- including genuine footage -- already available on more obscure Web sites has seeped in the mainstream of American popular culture, said Eben Kaplan, assistant editor of CFR.org, the Web site of the Council on Foreign Relations, a nonpartisan think tank headquartered in New York.

These images from YouTube.com purportedly show attacks on U.S. troops in Iraq. These images are bombings of Americans.


"It is authentic. Most of (the videos) have insignia of Iraqi insurgent groups" and some likely were reposted from jihadist Web sites, said Kaplan, who has written extensively about terrorists' use of the Internet. "That it's being picked up in YouTube does give it a much wider audience."
Kaplan said the Internet is an important tool for insurgents in Iraq, who use it to attract recruits and funding, create a network of sympathizers, and to try to demoralize American soldiers and citizens.

YOUTUBE, based in San Mateo, Calif., has grown astronomically since it was launched in December. The free site allows users to post and view video footage from around the world. More than 100 million videos are viewed each day, and 65,000 new ones added, according to the Web site.

Calls and e-mails to YouTube requesting an interview regarding the war videos went unreturned. The Web site's "terms of use" and "safety tips" sections make it clear that the organization -- which describes itself as a "consumer media company" and "entertainment destination" -- expects users to police themselves.

The "safety tips" states that "YouTube doesn't allow videos with nudity, graphic violence or hate" and advises users who find violations to flag the videos and report them to YouTube.

Some of the graphic war images are flagged as objectionable, but come into view after the user clicks on a box acknowledging that the video contains graphic content.

The "terms of use" section says YouTube reserves the sole right to remove videos and to terminate a user's access for violating its policies.

The section goes on to say that users understand they may be exposed to videos that are "inaccurate, offensive, indecent or objectionable" and that YouTube holds no liability.

The Star-Bulletin also tried to contact MeTaLhEaD696, the user name of someone who posted several videos of Americans being shot. The person did not respond to e-mailed requests for an interview.

The anti-U.S. videos generate visceral reactions by viewers, with their posted comments revealing the breadth and depth of responses: from the unbridled glee of insurgent sympathizers, to the outrage expressed by Americans vowing revenge, to the assertion that the harsh images reveal the reality U.S. soldiers face in unpredictable urban warfare. There also are crass comments by people who enjoy so-called "war porn" and endless speculation about who filmed the footage, who posted it and what their motivations were.

The phenomenon illustrates the huge power of the Internet in 21st-century warfare, both as a propaganda tool and as a means of instant communication among far-flung but like-minded individuals. (YouTube users can post comments to the general group, and can also communicate privately with each other.)

THE SITE ALSO holds numerous equally violent videos that claim to show U.S. soldiers killing people in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Users who say none of the images should be censored call the Internet videos the flip side of mainstream American news coverage from the beginning of the Iraq war, when journalists were embedded with U.S. troops and filmed battles from the American point of view.

But besides showing dead Americans and glorifying anti-U.S. fighters, the footage on YouTube.com and other video-sharing sites tends to be much more graphic than war footage seen on regular television, and offers little or no context.

"These videos are frankly pretty sickening," said Kaplan, who noted that one added a laugh track and funny sound effects to the scenes of soldiers dying.

"The Internet is by and large uncensored, and I personally feel for the most part that's good," he said, but added that "it's very disturbing" to think of people viewing such death scenes as entertainment.

Lt. Cmdr. Jason Salata, spokesman for the U.S. Pacific Command, refused to comment specifically about videos on YouTube but gave a general statement. "The U.S. military is aware that disturbing images are out on the Internet, but their use or placement is up to the individuals or editorial staffs that choose to publish them," Salata said.

patman

MxRacerCam
09-14-2006, 02:17 PM
welcome to freedom of speech in the information age!

L98Terror
09-14-2006, 03:31 PM
War is a horrible thing that people that aren't fighting it don't need to see you'd think an American company would allow itself to be used that way but it thier prerogative.

Sean124
09-14-2006, 03:59 PM
What do you say to something like this ?

cASe SenSiTive
09-14-2006, 04:42 PM
Just to play devils advocate: I've seen plenty of videos of the insurgents and other "bad guys" being shot/bombed/killed. Most people's reactions to those are amusement and joy. :dontknow:

BAd Dad
09-14-2006, 06:13 PM
We all watched Desert Storm on TV ....
this is just a close up

Ortontucky Terror
09-14-2006, 08:20 PM
it should be able to be seen, im all for no censorship on anything. but thats just me..... metalhead696, anyone think hes an arab from the area?.... we've been fortunate not to have anyone killed by snipers a few people have been hit in the plate but a lot of it is keeping your self aware of where a sniper is most likely to be. the closest was one of guys in my platoon got a direct to his helmet on his NVG mount, broke the mount, blew the mounting plate off and spirder webbed his helmet, knocked his ass the fuck out. we had apaches on station in minutes and they found him and smoked him. another time we were inserting scouts and snipers and another buddy opened his door, and had a round skip off the bottom lip of his helmet and imbed itself into the window, the scouts were already out of the trucks and made b-line for the woods.

patman
09-14-2006, 09:54 PM
it should be able to be seen, im all for no censorship on anything. but thats just me..... .

As I've said on this sight before, I'm ex-military, I've got a son in the Army and one in the Air Force. I am pro-military and I pray and hope you come back safe, I just needed to ask you that question from a parents piont of view and with a honest heart, no anger invovled. If they posted a video of you getting your head blown off, would you really have no problem with your parents seeing it? What about your brothers or sisters? What about your grandma and grangpa? How would they feel?



patman

Roadrage
09-14-2006, 10:06 PM
As I've said on this sight before, I'm ex-military, I've got a son in the Army and one in the Air Force. I am pro-military and I pray and hope you come back safe, I just needed to ask you that question from a parents piont of view and with a honest heart, no anger invovled. If they posted a video of you getting your head blown off, would you really have no problem with your parents seeing it? What about your brothers or sisters? What about your grandma and grangpa? How would they feel?



patman

There are things on tv/radio/internet that upset people all the time. The issue isn't whether or not it upsets someone. Its censorship. You cant say "well, I want that cencored, but I don't want you to censor anything I dont find upsetting or offensive."

Im sure 99% of Americans are angered by the videos, but there isnt a thing we can do about it besides not watch it.

patman
09-14-2006, 11:41 PM
There are things on tv/radio/internet that upset people all the time. The issue isn't whether or not it upsets someone. Its censorship. You cant say "well, I want that cencored, but I don't want you to censor anything I dont find upsetting or offensive."

Im sure 99% of Americans are angered by the videos, but there isnt a thing we can do about it besides not watch it.

I get what you're saying and agree with you. I just don't understand why this company would "air" them. I know, freedom of speech and all of that, but what about loyalty to your country and it's fallen heros? Is a little respect to much to ask or hope for? I can't believe that no one has any issue with this:dontknow:

patman

Sean124
09-15-2006, 09:39 AM
I get what you're saying and agree with you. I just don't understand why this company would "air" them. I know, freedom of speech and all of that, but what about loyalty to your country and it's fallen heros? Is a little respect to much to ask or hope for? I can't believe that no one has any issue with this:dontknow:

patman

What about the covert funerals and the american bodys being brought back and no one being allowed to video tape that with unflagged caskets at edwards?? were is the due respect that hasn't been accorded to the fallen men and women in our armed services who serve in this war ? I ask those questions. Yes i find those videos a bit offesnvie but i can't ask anyone to censor them becuase it runs against some of my other core beliefs.The other side is that from what i understand far more gruesum High 8mm camaera films were circulated during vietnam era. I think there is a war monger/masochistic side of human nature that tends to pop up during times of war that creates a fascination with these kinds of things. Just my opinion.rambling thoughts from the madman in the orning.

Foolsgold80z
09-15-2006, 05:43 PM
Why would it shock anyone that the enemy would get joy and support from
images of our boys getiing killed? Lots of Americans are enjoying images of
enemy combatants in like situations. I don't see the difference. The images
are reality.

patman
09-15-2006, 07:50 PM
Why would it shock anyone that the enemy would get joy and support from images of our boys getiing killed? Lots of Americans are enjoying images of
enemy combatants in like situations. I don't see the difference. The images
are reality.

Well of course the enemy would get joy and support from images of our boys getiing killed. That's not what upsets me. What upsets me is that an American company would show these films. Why help the enemy's propaganda war? Why not show resect for our fellow countrymen and there families?

From the responses, I guess I'm the only one that sees the wrong in this. I wonder though, of all of you that have responded, how many of you are old enough to have kids that could be in harms way over there?:dontknow:

Patman

Foolsgold80z
09-15-2006, 10:10 PM
Well, I'm a vet, and my three sons are 13, 18, and 22. The entire situation
in that region is a fuck fest which is likely to get worse before it improves.
I think the pool of data the site has to deal with is pretty vast, and they are
simply trying to be as "hands off" the content as they can be. Of course I
find the images of American boys dying on duty disturbing, but not much more than people getting run over by cars or any other graphic death scene,
of which you can pretty much choose your flavor on the web. I just don't
view items that I find offensive. Warfare isn't pretty. I find it grotesque to
watch anybody's children being shot or blown into pieces, but I realize these
things are going on, and some sick fuck somewhere will like to see it.

patman
09-15-2006, 10:49 PM
Well, I'm a vet, and my three sons are 13, 18, and 22. The entire situation
in that region is a fuck fest which is likely to get worse before it improves.
I think the pool of data the site has to deal with is pretty vast, and they are
simply trying to be as "hands off" the content as they can be. Of course I
find the images of American boys dying on duty disturbing, but not much more than people getting run over by cars or any other graphic death scene,
of which you can pretty much choose your flavor on the web. I just don't
view items that I find offensive. Warfare isn't pretty. I find it grotesque to
watch anybody's children being shot or blown into pieces, but I realize these
things are going on, and some sick fuck somewhere will like to see it.

I agree with you. I'm glad to see that at least you are as disgusted by this as I am. I was starting to become shocked by the fact that everyone seemed to be "ok" with this spouting on about youtubes first amendment rights and not having a problem with the grotesqueness of the films

patman

Sean124
09-16-2006, 06:37 PM
I agree with you. I'm glad to see that at least you are as disgusted by this as I am. I was starting to become shocked by the fact that everyone seemed to be "ok" with this spouting on about youtubes first amendment rights and not having a problem with the grotesqueness of the films

patman

Just to throw another POV out there here is one to ponder. What if people are fascinated not out of the dark and saddistic but becuase they don't comprehend death ?? We live in a country we things aren't terriable.Brutal death is a part of so many other cultures and it isn't in ours.What if people are watching these films in the hopes of trying understand what happened to these soldiers. War is a bloody nasty process.

Foolsgold80z
09-16-2006, 06:55 PM
Just to throw another POV out there here is one to ponder. What if people are fascinated not out of the dark and saddistic but becuase they don't comprehend death ?? We live in a country we things aren't terriable.Brutal death is a part of so many other cultures and it isn't in ours.What if people are watching these films in the hopes of trying understand what happened to these soldiers. War is a bloody nasty process.

Unfortunately, most people aren't that deep. Most are watching for a cheap thrill.

patman
09-16-2006, 09:08 PM
Unfortunately, most people aren't that deep. Most are watching for a cheap thrill.

X2

patman