Air to Air or Air to Water?

[avbcon12]

I know there have been threads already about this, Ive just spent over an hour searching and read a bunch on it but there are really vague "real world" stats on intake temps, how they measure intake temps and whether or not people have switched from one to another and what the results were.

right now with my aftercooler setup i see no higher than 135* no matter how much boost im making. Thats in hot weather too and down from 220+* with no aftercooler. I am measuring the temps via the stock intake temps sensor in the #5 lower intake, not before the throttle body like others use so there must be some heatsoak in my sensor with that 135* number.

Im looking to try an Air to Air but might not even go ahead with it if it wont help much. My car is street driven with very little open track/ auto-X course time.

thanks

[Sean]

How much boost ? What blower ? how many cubes ? Air to Air usually works better in a road car. After a while the coolant for the air to water will start to heat soak and it is tough to get a big enough heat exchanger and pump for long duration use.

[LT1Pat]

If it's mostly a street car you should probably got with an A2A. I'm a big fan of A2W though if you want to get the most out of your car at the track. A2W is also good if you don't have enough space in your engine bay to fit the large cooler. If you run a good heat exchanger with the A2W though you can get pretty good results like the OEM setup on the lightning.

[avbcon12]

How much boost ? What blower ? how many cubes ? Air to Air usually works better in a road car. After a while the coolant for the air to water will start to heat soak and it is tough to get a big enough heat exchanger and pump for long duration use.

~10 psi right now but looking to up that to 12-14 with a vortech V2 S-trim. 302 Cube engine.

I have the vortech aftercooler on my car now and use 2 heat exchangers (one before and one after the aftercooler) and a lightening circ. pump so thats how im able to drop the temps that much. most others using the same kit never see temps this low (stock setups).

If it's mostly a street car you should probably got with an A2A. I'm a big fan of A2W though if you want to get the most out of your car at the track. A2W is also good if you don't have enough space in your engine bay to fit the large cooler. If you run a good heat exchanger with the A2W though you can get pretty good results like the OEM setup on the lightning.

I see your point, i have never loaded the tank with ice for the track because my car is an open track suspension car (torque arm/ panhard etc) so the ice would melt and not be worth anything after a minute or two on the track. on drag cars, yeah its worth it.

any more insight?

one of the biggest reasons for selling is money. In addition to that I want the same, if not better, intake temps and a cleaner engine bay.

[Sean]

I would go with a larger Air to Air for a setup like this. You may pickup some boost to becuase those small aftercoolers tend to be rather restrictive. I think for street use the Temps could actually be lower in most cases.


~10 psi right now but looking to up that to 12-14 with a vortech V2 S-trim. 302 Cube engine.

I have the vortech aftercooler on my car now and use 2 heat exchangers (one before and one after the aftercooler) and a lightening circ. pump so thats how im able to drop the temps that much. most others using the same kit never see temps this low (stock setups).



I see your point, i have never loaded the tank with ice for the track because my car is an open track suspension car (torque arm/ panhard etc) so the ice would melt and not be worth anything after a minute or two on the track. on drag cars, yeah its worth it.

any more insight?

one of the biggest reasons for selling is money. In addition to that I want the same, if not better, intake temps and a cleaner engine bay.

[avbcon12]

so you think that the temps at lower speeds (on the street) would still be lower than 135*? The reason I ask is because some people make the argument that A/A coolers need airflow to cool where as even at idle the A/W coolers are pulling heat out from the circulating water.

[Sean]

at 20mph the average Air to Air at say 24 x4 x12 is going to see something like 4000cfm worth of airflow. It is going to work fiarly well. Get a big enough intercooler and it will also have a better cycle time. Air to Air can store and dissapate heat just as fast a Water to air.

the real advantage of the water to air is chilled water. However on a road course this really won't work very well. Might get a lap or 2 before the ice runs out. Then you will still need a heat exchanger cloose to the size of the air to air to disapate all that heat.

Not withstanding the heat storage capabilites of water and thermal transfer properties but you still need a large heat exchanger.

Would make sense to simplify the system.

To me in this application air to air wins. Simplicity and imediate thermal transfer. The air to air won't have the thermal storage capability of the water to air but its cycle time being alot faster will work in your favor.

so you think that the temps at lower speeds (on the street) would still be lower than 135*? The reason I ask is because some people make the argument that A/A coolers need airflow to cool where as even at idle the A/W coolers are pulling heat out from the circulating water.

[avbcon12]

are those dimensions (24x4x12) the core of overall? That is a huge core from what ive seen. Im reading a book by Corky Bell called Maximum Boost and it lays out how to size piping and core size but doesnt mention much about if too big of an intercooler will hurt.

[Sean]

I have yet to see a single downside to a larger intercooler. Those cooler of that size can fit a mustang but you have to toss the fiberglass bumper support or cut the crap out of it. They are avilable on ebay to and cheap.

I would do 3inch piping in aluminum to help shed heat to and from the intercooler and a blow through MAF setup if you do not have one now.

As for heat exchange you can fit alot of intercooler. Yes that is the core size. If your out in the area drop by I can show you how big/small these units really are.

are those dimensions (24x4x12) the core of overall? That is a huge core from what ive seen. Im reading a book by Corky Bell called Maximum Boost and it lays out how to size piping and core size but doesnt mention much about if too big of an intercooler will hurt.

[avbcon12]

Ok cool, ill have to stop by at some point.

I know blow-through Mafs have their advantages but does it make that much of a difference? I currently have a draw-through.

If i got blow-through where should I place the blow-off valve? I know before the MAF but I hear some people having "flutter" or chatter problems depending on where they place the BOV and MAF.
thanks

[Sean]

Well I can build the MAf right into the charge pipping its not exspensive or difficult. Works better for the Bypass thats for sure.


Ok cool, ill have to stop by at some point.

I know blow-through Mafs have their advantages but does it make that much of a difference? I currently have a draw-through.

thanks

[93-bucket]

I thought of this too a while back, It sounded like a good idea until I called vortech to get a straight discharge volute.. I think it was something like 300 bux for them to replace it.. Or I guess you could trade with someone..I opted for the lightning H/E and pump for this year, I haven't driven the car yet to see the results, but I don't think I will be any better off than you with the 2 stock ones... I would almost say stick with what you have just to keep it simple, plus you always have the option of adding ice water to the tank on hot track days... just my .02 cents... good luck!!

[jtcstrat]

Well I can build the MAf right into the charge pipping its not exspensive or difficult. Works better for the Bypass thats for sure.

Hey, I will chime in on this subject because I just went through this lol.

I know our cars are different but I had a non intercooled vortech on my 02 gt. (draw through)

We added a 3” FMIC with 3” piping and the vortech mini race bypass. This caused the surging/bucking so after talking to Sean at CARS and Greg, Sean fabbed up a Blow through design and it fixed all the surging/bucking problems.

So I would agree that it makes it a lot easier to convert to blow through. Sean does some great work. He will take care of ya!

[avbcon12]

Well I can build the MAf right into the charge pipping its not exspensive or difficult. Works better for the Bypass thats for sure.

and use my sensor? I thought they were calibrated for draw/ blow specifically.

I thought of this too a while back, It sounded like a good idea until I called vortech to get a straight discharge volute.. I think it was something like 300 bux for them to replace it.. Or I guess you could trade with someone..I opted for the lightning H/E and pump for this year, I haven't driven the car yet to see the results, but I don't think I will be any better off than you with the 2 stock ones... I would almost say stick with what you have just to keep it simple, plus you always have the option of adding ice water to the tank on hot track days... just my .02 cents... good luck!!

thanks, the 2 setrab heat exchangers work very well and draw out a lot of heat BUT in terms of keeping it simple an A/A is by far less complicated. I talked to vortech too and they wanted something like $350 for the polished one but I was thinking of cutting the curve off mine and Tig'n a new straight on mine. Vortech claims each volute is made to clearance the impellers specific to each blower but this I know is not true. I have had many friends buy used straight volutes on ebay and swap them with no problems. So if I remove my volute Im fairly certain I can make it straight if I cant find one on ebay.

Having 2 H/E helps a lot with not heat soaking the reservoir. after the water goes through the aftercooler its pretty damn hot and when it sits in the tank it will heat all the water up like nothing else. Then the single H/E has to work even hard to pull the heat out.

Hey, I will chime in on this subject because I just went through this lol.

I know our cars are different but I had a non intercooled vortech on my 02 gt. (draw through)

We added a 3” FMIC with 3” piping and the vortech mini race bypass. This caused the surging/bucking so after talking to Sean at CARS and Greg, Sean fabbed up a Blow through design and it fixed all the surging/bucking problems.

So I would agree that it makes it a lot easier to convert to blow through. Sean does some great work. He will take care of ya!


thanks! where is your MAF located in relation to the BOV?

[Sean]

ask JCstrat for pictures of his setup.


and use my sensor? I thought they were calibrated for draw/ blow specifically.



thanks, the 2 setrab heat exchangers work very well and draw out a lot of heat BUT in terms of keeping it simple an A/A is by far less complicated. I talked to vortech too and they wanted something like $350 for the polished one but I was thinking of cutting the curve off mine and Tig'n a new straight on mine. Vortech claims each volute is made to clearance the impellers specific to each blower but this I know is not true. I have had many friends buy used straight volutes on ebay and swap them with no problems. So if I remove my volute Im fairly certain I can make it straight if I cant find one on ebay.




thanks! where is your MAF located in relation to the BOV?

[jtcstrat]

its kinda hard to describe, but i can show you some pics, or if you are around the waterford area or at Seans shop you can give me a call and i can show you the car in person. I live really close to Seans shop

[avbcon12]

yeah, post some pics if you can. Did Sean use your MAF electronics?

thanks

[jtcstrat]

yeah, post some pics if you can. Did Sean use your MAF electronics?

thanks

MAF electronics? you lost me on that one lol

Im re using my stock maf, with a Diablosport MAFIa


It wont be till later for the pics because my GF is at work and its her camera, she has it on her lol. But if you wanna see it in person let me know, i have some time tonight. Otherwise i will get pics up later

[avbcon12]

Im in East Lansing this weekend so I wont be able to stop by but thanks. Pics later will do

As for MAF electronics... you can remove the electronics from the housings and I didnt know if he did that and fabbed up a tube to put them in for a blow-through setup. It sounds like he did that and used the MAFIA to tune it...

I have a PMS but it doesnt give any adjustment for MAF correction so I wonder if this is possible for me without buying a MAFIA or something like it, or a new blow through MAF.

[Sean]

Yes. We are going to rescale with a MAFia. better signal to noise ratio in a smaller pipe. You should switch to the 99up MAF. better metering and it repackages well. The earlier MAF would require a custom sample tube. However you will need to recalibrate the pcm due to the change in the MAF transfer function. You could always sell the PMS and get a custom chip made up.



yeah, post some pics if you can. Did Sean use your MAF electronics?

thanks

[avbcon12]

Hmm, I didnt know it was possible to use a 99-up MAF... I like the PMS even though its limiting at times because I am always changing something and dont want to do the whole $600/tune thing over and over again. I cant afford it.

[Sean]

Well who charges $600 ? thats ludacris. You can use any ford MAF. With a blower though you will need a 3inch pipe and a 99-up maf and a modified PCM transfer function. Also you will need a MAFia or some sort of MAF signal manipulator.


Hmm, I didnt know it was possible to use a 99-up MAF... I like the PMS even though its limiting at times because I am always changing something and dont want to do the whole $600/tune thing again. I cant afford it.

[avbcon12]

Well who charges $600 ? thats ludacris. You can use any ford MAF. With a blower though you will need a 3inch pipe and a 99-up maf and a modified PCM transfer function. Also you will need a MAFia or some sort of MAF signal manipulator.

I wont name names but its a reputable shop... very knowledgeable in what they do too, i didnt mind paying it at the time (6+ years ago) but dont have that kind of cash anymore.

anyway, I wonder if this is the way to go or to just purchase a blow through tube MAF from PMAS or something. cost wise it would make more sense.

thanks for the help.

[Sean]

a 99-up gt maf should cost about $50 at the Junkyard. I have the MAf standoff block there are $40. Get a MAFIA. All of those aftermarket MAF's have calibration issues. The other option is the abaco Maf at anderson ford motorsports.


I wont name names but its a reputable shop... very knowledgeable in what they do too, i didnt mind paying it at the time (6+ years ago) but dont have that kind of cash anymore.

anyway, I wonder if this is the way to go or to just purchase a blow through tube MAF from PMAS or something. cost wise it would make more sense.

thanks for the help.

[jtcstrat]

Here are some pics of the new blow through set up, sry it took so long.

here is the old set up:
Draw through, recirculating bypass
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c134/jtcstrat/IMG_1781.jpg

The new:
You can see the blow through set up in the middle of the charge pipe. And the new power custom pipe
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c134/jtcstrat/IMG_0616.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c134/jtcstrat/IMG_0617.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c134/jtcstrat/IMG_0619.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c134/jtcstrat/IMG_0620.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c134/jtcstrat/IMG_0621.jpg

Its hard to see but the bypass is on this pipe infront of the crank pulley
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c134/jtcstrat/IMG_0622.jpg

[jtcstrat]

And you might need one of these
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c134/jtcstrat/IMG_0629.jpg

[avbcon12]

thanks for the pics!

the issue I thought was going to keep me from going to a 99+ MAF was that they are 6 wire and stock fox is (i think) 4 pin. I knwo you can get 6 to 4 pin harness adapters but then why use a 6 pin MAF if youre only using a 4 pin anyway? do the other 2 pins not anything to do with data?

[Sean]

seems easier to just use the 6pin maf. the IAT is better off in the intake pipe anyways.


thanks for the pics!

the issue I thought was going to keep me from going to a 99+ MAF was that they are 6 wire and stock fox is (i think) 4 pin. I knwo you can get 6 to 4 pin harness adapters but then why use a 6 pin MAF if youre only using a 4 pin anyway? do the other 2 pins not anything to do with data?

[avbcon12]

seems easier to just use the 6pin maf. the IAT is better off in the intake pipe anyways.

is that what the other 2 wires on the 99+ MAF are for then? I still use the IAT in the lower intake (#5 runner).

That DBX meter looks too good to be true, I want to get one but im not waiting another month or more... they havent even started shipping yet and there is at least a month lead time after that.

[myslow2002gt]

is that what the other 2 wires on the 99+ MAF are for then? I still use the IAT in the lower intake (#5 runner).

That DBX meter looks too good to be true, I want to get one but im not waiting another month or more... they havent even started shipping yet and there is at least a month lead time after that.

The extra 2 pins are the integrated IAT, which you don't need. An external IAT is better for a boosted car to prevent heat soak issues.

The two IAT terminals are the gray wires.

[myslow2002gt]

Just to add my $0.02 to the mixture...

I've had great success with Air to Air coolers on street cars with an added water injection setup. I've seen temps WELL below ambient with this setup.

[avbcon12]

thanks for the help, maybe in the future ill add a meth injection kit.

my next question is about intercoolers. Ive read a lot of pipe sizes but cant find much about intercooler sizing. Do you size it based on the blower CFM? if so I cant find many rated at over 1000CFM.

Also, im on the fence between 2.5 and 3" piping. according to the calculations in just about in between the 2.

thanks

[myslow2002gt]

thanks for the help, maybe in the future ill add a meth injection kit.

my next question is about intercoolers. Ive read a lot of pipe sizes but cant find much about intercooler sizing. Do you size it based on the blower CFM? if so I cant find many rated at over 1000CFM.

Also, im on the fence between 2.5 and 3" piping. according to the calculations in just about in between the 2.

thanks
Pressure drop is the key thing to focus on with an intercooler.

You will want 3" piping for sure and a 1000 cfm intercooler will work very well for you, and will allow you to expand with that Vortech V2.

[avbcon12]

well the v2 I have now flows up to 1000cfm but the blower im upgrading to flows 1150cfm. should I go bigger? Even some of the huge intercoolers ive found (ones that likely wont even fit) dont flow 1000cfm.

whats a good pressure drop figure? ~0.2psi at 15 psi of boost and 2-3 psi at 30psi of boost?

[avbcon12]

the blower is off to vortech to be upgraded to the new SI trim so I need to make headway on the intercooler and piping.

can anyone point me in the right direction with intercoolers? Im not sure what to look for.

thanks

[Sean]

I would go 3inch. Your not going to loss anything in terms of power over it and the added surface area "if the pipe are aluminum" will help disapate heat. 3inch gets my nod.

[avbcon12]

after doing the calculations 3" piping is the best choice being that it puts me at about mach 0.27 air velocity where Mach 0.4 is the point where velocity begins to gain too much turbulence and heat to be beneficial.

so now I have to find an intercooler, do you size them based upon HP, CFM the blower flows, the largest you can fit, etc? I know I want a low pressure drop and high efficiency but how do you actually figure sizing?

thanks,
adam

[Sean]

As big as you can fit. If you can't fit the size you need at a minimum make room.


after doing the calculations 3" piping is the best choice being that it puts me at about mach 0.27 air velocity where Mach 0.4 is the point where velocity begins to gain too much turbulence and heat to be beneficial.

so now I have to find an intercooler, do you size them based upon HP, CFM the blower flows, the largest you can fit, etc? I know I want a low pressure drop and high efficiency but how do you actually figure sizing?

thanks,
adam

[avbcon12]

OK thanks. Now, Ive been looking for same side inlet/outlet verticle flow intercooler to keep the piping on the passenger side but have been thinking of flipping the intake around so the throttle body is on the drivers side and using a horizontal flow intercooler. I know the vertical flow intercoolers generally have the least amount of pressure drop and flow quite a bit more than a same size horizontal flow.

which would you choose? I know there are a lot of larger horizontal intercoolers out there than there are vertical so that may be the route I go.

thanks

[Sean]

I would go horizontal. Easier to route the charge pipes and alot eaiser to find in larger sizes.

[avbcon12]

OK I still havent chosen an intercooler because some claim to have a higher density of fins than others which help cooling etc... but at what point does this not really matter? the more dense the fins the harder it is to get ambient air to pass through at lower speeds (on the street).

im looking at a 31x12x3 intercooler right now that is really cheap (off brand) and its a little worrying because its so cheap. I also want something that isnt going to give me problems.

[avbcon12]

3"- <700cfm, 6-800HP max
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CXRacing-INTERCOOLER-31x12x3-SUBARU-IMPREZA-WRX-STi_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742Q2em153Q2el1262 QQcategoryZ33742QQihZ024QQitemZ370044678677

4"- <800cfm, 1000hp max
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CXRacing-INTERCOOLER-DSM-SUPRA-F150-Mustang-3000GT-4_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742Q2em153Q2el1262QQ categoryZ33742QQihZ004QQitemZ140226443389

Which would you choose (or neither)?

[jtcstrat]

you are thinking to hard about this.

Just go with a 3" and you will be fine. I have a cheap $100 xs power IC and it works great.

[avbcon12]

alright, hah. I know im thinking too much into this... I just dont want to end up with a piece of shit Ill have to replace soon. the 3" it is, it will be easier to fit.

thanks!

[jtcstrat]

If anything just shop around for a 3"

This is the brand i have, ss4matt, and gpowrie.

But mine is a 3" core, this is 4". Still has 3" inlets, may still fit good.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NIB-XS-POWER-FRONT-MOUNT-INTERCOOLER-100MM-FMIC_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33741QQihZ006QQite mZ160233135550QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[soap]

I don't want to stray off topic, and I hope this post brings more info to this thread. What sort of IAT2's (downstream air temps) are you guys with A/A setups seeing?? Furthermore are you using other means to cool the intake air via methanol etc?? Do any of you guys real world info or just info from a few dyno pulls?? I know for a fact there is a big difference between making a pass down the track or just a quick pull in 4th gear on a dyno.

Reason I ask is I have an A/W setup and montior my donwstream temps quite a bit, and I know what to expect based on IAT1's (outside air temps), adding ice to the mix, etc etc.

I thought I read someone mention in this thread about having IAT2's at or below ambient.....which would be unreal. If you were racing in the fall and had IAT1's of like 45*, you telling me you could get IAT2's lower than that :seizure: That would make some serious power!!!

Anyway, sorry if it's off track a bit, I am just trying to get some more info.

--Joe

[Sean]

Depends on the compressor efficiency and the boost level as well as the intercooler size. I have never seen a A/A intercooler drop temps below ambient. Usually fairly close if its well sized. On the dyno though its really tough to get those intercooler working well becuase the amount of fan you need is just insane to generate even a 20mph head wind.




I don't want to stray off topic, and I hope this post brings more info to this thread. What sort of IAT2's (downstream air temps) are you guys with A/A setups seeing?? Furthermore are you using other means to cool the intake air via methanol etc?? Do any of you guys real world info or just info from a few dyno pulls?? I know for a fact there is a big difference between making a pass down the track or just a quick pull in 4th gear on a dyno.

Reason I ask is I have an A/W setup and montior my donwstream temps quite a bit, and I know what to expect based on IAT1's (outside air temps), adding ice to the mix, etc etc.

I thought I read someone mention in this thread about having IAT2's at or below ambient.....which would be unreal. If you were racing in the fall and had IAT1's of like 45*, you telling me you could get IAT2's lower than that :seizure: That would make some serious power!!!

Anyway, sorry if it's off track a bit, I am just trying to get some more info.

--Joe

[TRBOBUICK]

. What sort of IAT2's (downstream air temps) are you guys with A/A setups seeing?? Furthermore are you using other means to cool the intake air via methanol etc??


On a couple of passes at ubly , my temps from the IAT in my upper plenum start at around 100 on an 80 degreee day. By the end of the run they were between 118 and 130 @ 30+psi .

[avbcon12]

I don't want to stray off topic, and I hope this post brings more info to this thread. What sort of IAT2's (downstream air temps) are you guys with A/A setups seeing?? Furthermore are you using other means to cool the intake air via methanol etc?? Do any of you guys real world info or just info from a few dyno pulls?? I know for a fact there is a big difference between making a pass down the track or just a quick pull in 4th gear on a dyno.

Reason I ask is I have an A/W setup and montior my donwstream temps quite a bit, and I know what to expect based on IAT1's (outside air temps), adding ice to the mix, etc etc.

I thought I read someone mention in this thread about having IAT2's at or below ambient.....which would be unreal. If you were racing in the fall and had IAT1's of like 45*, you telling me you could get IAT2's lower than that :seizure: That would make some serious power!!!

Anyway, sorry if it's off track a bit, I am just trying to get some more info.

--Joe

If you read my first post you will see my results with my A/W setup. Thats with no ice or anything ans street driven (read heat soaked).

I will for sure be posting differences when I get the A/A up and running. the only way I have ever seen temps LOWER than ambient with an A/A is with some other form of cooling (N2o intercooler spray, meth, etc). most ive seen are about 20-30* above ambient at full boost with no other help

[avbcon12]

If anything just shop around for a 3"

This is the brand i have, ss4matt, and gpowrie.

But mine is a 3" core, this is 4". Still has 3" inlets, may still fit good.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NIB-XS-POWER-FRONT-MOUNT-INTERCOOLER-100MM-FMIC_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33741QQihZ006QQite mZ160233135550QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

thanks, they look identical to the links in my post... hmm

[soap]

Depends on the compressor efficiency and the boost level as well as the intercooler size. I have never seen a A/A intercooler drop temps below ambient. Usually fairly close if its well sized. On the dyno though its really tough to get those intercooler working well becuase the amount of fan you need is just insane to generate even a 20mph head wind.

I agree alot depends on the specific setup. And further, that is why I asked for real world data. It is impossible to simulate the cooling effects and loading of a vehicle when sitting on rollers. Thanks for the input.

On a couple of passes at ubly , my temps from the IAT in my upper plenum start at around 100 on an 80 degreee day. By the end of the run they were between 118 and 130 @ 30+psi .

No fair.....turbo's are too efficient :sad: A 20*-30* increase over the run is very good for +30psi!!

If you read my first post you will see my results with my A/W setup. Thats with no ice or anything ans street driven (read heat soaked).

I will for sure be posting differences when I get the A/A up and running. the only way I have ever seen temps LOWER than ambient with an A/A is with some other form of cooling (N2o intercooler spray, meth, etc). most ive seen are about 20-30* above ambient at full boost with no other help

That makes more sense. My IAT1's are always at ambient, and worst case (at the drag strip) my IAT2's are typically about 20 degree's more on the big end.

Thanks guys!!

--Joe

[avbcon12]

just bought this one:
3"- <700cfm, 6-800HP max
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CXRacing-INTERCOOLER-31x12x3-SUBARU-IMPREZA-WRX-STi_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742Q2em153Q2el1262 QQcategoryZ33742QQihZ024QQitemZ370044678677

I have to get the piping now, anyone have a ballpark of what bends they used? I was thinking about 4-45*, 2-90*, and a couple straight lengths.

[jtcstrat]

I got 6 3" 90* bends, i want to say it was around $150

[jtcstrat]

I used the ends of the 90* for my straight, and you will be cutting and of different *'s

[avbcon12]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=009&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=190216625164&rd=1

what do you think? then add a few more 45*s?

[jtcstrat]

Honestly, if you want nice stuff that will weld good, and want some real nice couplers. dont get kits off ebay, just my opinion tho.

nice couplers and tbolt calms will cost you more, but they work alot better and are better looking.

[avbcon12]

youre right, I want better but who carries them?

that kit on ebay is 14 guage so it shouldnt be too tough to weld. maybe going with 1/8" wall (10 guage) would be best though.

[jtcstrat]

I forget the one place, but i know wolf carries the tubing, i got my couplers/tbolts from motivisity and detroir flexable metal or something like that.

Give sean a shout, he will know better than me.

[coldblue012]

Anyone know of a good place that can fab up the tubing from the supercharger to the intake with the intercooler in there?

[jtcstrat]

Sean at CARS

[avbcon12]

tell me, why shouldnt I buy this???? the Tial BOV looks to be exactly the same unit and retails for over $200. I know its probably made in china but also comes with a lifetime warranty.

http://app.infopia.com/Shop/Control/Product/fp/vpid/2763797/vpcsid/0/SFV/31982