dual stage nos ????????????

[fogged10]

ok quick ? which i know j-quick or 388monte will know the answer for me!


if i was to use a dual stage kit! and i only have a digital6plus ign. how do i retard the timing for the second stage? the digitial6plus only has capiablitys to retard 1 stage! do i just have to add a msd timing retard to my digitqal6plus ? if so what part # etc and how do i wire it in the box? or do i have to upgrade to a digital7plus?


any help would be great!

thanks mark

[jakefb]

Run your timing for the frist stage and use the retard for the second stage. I figured your a expert you would have known that.

[fogged10]

Run your timing for the frist stage and use the retard for the second stage. I figured your a expert you would have known that.

would if i do not spray it leaving? and no i am not an expert!

[mark468]

ok quick ? which i know j-quick or 388monte will know the answer for me!


if i was to use a dual stage kit! and i only have a digital6plus ign. how do i retard the timing for the second stage? the digitial6plus only has capiablitys to retard 1 stage! do i just have to add a msd timing retard to my digitqal6plus ? if so what part # etc and how do i wire it in the box? or do i have to upgrade to a digital7plus?


any help would be great!

thanks mark

just upgrade and il by your dig6:cheers:

[bigg]

Run your timing for the frist stage and use the retard for the second stage. I figured your a expert you would have known that.

thats why really fast street cars run like shit on motor.....like my truck this year!

[johnquick302]

you will just have to run the timing like jake said or get a dig 7 box with multi retards. that is what i have so i can pull timing out i think 4 times, i know 3 for sure.

[BADBLACKZ]

Better yet, use both stages as one on a progressive controler.......?

[77 ford]

get 1 of these
27991
will do 4 stages, each stage w/ up to 9* of timing (per stage) or a total of 20* !!!
part# MSD-8975 ...$266.10 or the one i have in the garage for $150 !!!

[johnquick302]

Better yet, use both stages as one on a progressive controler.......?

why not just use 1 kit then if your gonna do that?

[fogged10]

why not just use 1 kit then if your gonna do that?

x2

just by a big shot plate and put a controller on it!

[team_southside]

why not just use 1 kit then if your gonna do that?

that is what im doing, 1 NOS pro-race fogger system on a progressive controller. the kit flows up to 600hp. so i have no need for multiple systems.

[BADBLACKZ]

I run a Cold Fusion fogger (up to 600) and a Cold Fusion plate (up to 400).... both as one simply because the fogger "hardware kit" only came with two h.p. levals, for some reason I chose the smallest two (200 and 250) I have to make up for it with the plate.....
At the time I bought both systems I was a fogger newb., if I had it to do over I would have skipped the plate system and used a bigger fogger hit....

[1bad Lad]

would if i do not spray it leaving? and no i am not an expert!
if u ain't sprayin leavin then u need more traction....lol

[johnquick302]

I run a Cold Fusion fogger (up to 600) and a Cold Fusion plate (up to 400).... both as one simply because the fogger "hardware kit" only came with two h.p. levals, for some reason I chose the smallest two (200 and 250) I have to make up for it with the plate.....
At the time I bought both systems I was a fogger newb., if I had it to do over I would have skipped the plate system and used a bigger fogger hit....

so buy jets. you can sell the other kit for more than the jets will cost so you can put more money in your pocket and it would be way easier to tune only using one kit instead of 2.

[johnquick302]

that is what im doing, 1 NOS pro-race fogger system on a progressive controller. the kit flows up to 600hp. so i have no need for multiple systems.

with that race car you got you should be able to use it all without a progressive.

[jordanbmx]

just use one plate and take the jets out it oughta run good like that hahah

[388Monte]

Fogged save your cash and buy a crank trigger and a digital 7. 7530T will be a perfect box for you.

[johnquick302]

Fogged save your cash and buy a crank trigger and a digital 7. 7530T will be a perfect box for you.

i dont have a crank trigger. i want one though. i pull like 21deg of timing out with my box and havent had any isssues yet.

[Pwraddr]

with that race car you got you should be able to use it all without a progressive.

Laughing!!

[camaromann]

Any body have any advice on what type of plugs to use when spraying over a 150 shot? When would i need a non-projected tip spark plug? Im assuming that you are using that type of plug jq, and anyone else who heavily sprays their motors. thanks.

[johnquick302]

Any body have any advice on what type of plugs to use when spraying over a 150 shot? When would i need a non-projected tip spark plug? Im assuming that you are using that type of plug jq, and anyone else who heavily sprays their motors. thanks.

i always use a non projected tip plug. i have used ngk 9s on some motors but only when i cant get 10s. it depends alot of the gas, timing, comp stuff like that.

[camaromann]

i always use a non projected tip plug. i have used ngk 9s on some motors but only when i cant get 10s. it depends alot of the gas, timing, comp stuff like that.

I have about 10.7:1 comp. pump gas. for some reason it loves about 40 degrees total time. When i spray it gets 110 octane and the time bumped back a little. The plugs i use are ngk's and are 5's. They are 1 heat range colder then stock and i dont ever spray over 100hp with them. I am looking to use a 250hp shot with a controller. I was told if i run a non projected tip plug i wont be able to street drive it hardly and my motor passes would suffer greatly.

[johnquick302]

I have about 10.7:1 comp. pump gas. for some reason it loves about 40 degrees total time. When i spray it gets 110 octane and the time bumped back a little. The plugs i use are ngk's and are 5's. They are 1 heat range colder then stock and i dont ever spray over 100hp with them. I am looking to use a 250hp shot with a controller. I was told if i run a non projected tip plug i wont be able to street drive it hardly and my motor passes would suffer greatly.
i run 10s all day in my car. they do load up pretty easy if the carb is not right. i had a difference carb on my car before and i went all year without changing plugs. with the carb i have now i foul them all the time. i didnt lose much with this plug i actually gained a tenth over a hot autolite plug to a cold ngk plug.

[allthrottle]

i run 10s all day in my car. they do load up pretty easy if the carb is not right. i had a difference carb on my car before and i went all year without changing plugs. with the carb i have now i foul them all the time. i didnt lose much with this plug i actually gained a tenth over a hot autolite plug to a cold ngk plug.

why you dogging the carb i sold you?! lol....too much for your little more...jk :alcoholic

[johnquick302]

why you dogging the carb i sold you?! lol....too much for your little more...jk :alcoholic

i dont know what it is with this carb i could never get it to idle right without adding too much fuel and it would foul a plug. i probably had a bunch of lil vaccum leaks from all the fogger nozzles or something.

[camaromann]

i run 10s all day in my car. they do load up pretty easy if the carb is not right. i had a difference carb on my car before and i went all year without changing plugs. with the carb i have now i foul them all the time. i didnt lose much with this plug i actually gained a tenth over a hot autolite plug to a cold ngk plug.

Well thats good to hear from someone who is actually out their using them on the street. I had carb issues all year...the issue turned out to be me..lol

[1bad Lad]

electronic fuel injection playaz problem solved........lol

[camaromann]

electronic fuel injection playaz problem solved........lol

F that. I dont feel like reprograming my car every time i change something. and no, im not going stand alone.

[388Monte]

40 degrees of timing your beating the shit out of your bearings and pistons. No motor should run with that much timing in it.

[camaromann]

40 degrees of timing your beating the shit out of your bearings and pistons. No motor should run with that much timing in it.

Thats what i thought too. After talking to a lot of people racing small chevy's, a lot of them told me that their motors are locked out at 40-42 and have had no issues in 2-3 years. They said it was due to the chamber of the head wanting the motor to fire late so they would bump up the timing more. And why is it beating the shit out of the pistons and more specifically the bearings?

[johnquick302]

Thats what i thought too. After talking to a lot of people racing small chevy's, a lot of them told me that their motors are locked out at 40-42 and have had no issues in 2-3 years. They said it was due to the chamber of the head wanting the motor to fire late so they would bump up the timing more. And why is it beating the shit out of the pistons and more specifically the bearings?

detonation beats up the pistons and bearings. and too much timing will lead to detonation.

[fogged10]

detonation beats up the pistons and bearings. and too much timing will lead to detonation.

yea and 40-42 that seems like an awful lot of timing just my $.02!

[DOUGHBOY RACING]

Just remember on a digital 6 you are limited to 9 degrees of timing that you can retard, so that alone you wont be able to hit it with 2 kits

[DOUGHBOY RACING]

Like johnny said buy the digital 7 and use the dots feature for traction control

[DOUGHBOY RACING]

7 programmable that is not the digital 7 plus

[johnquick302]

Like johnny said buy the digital 7 and use the dots feature for traction control

the dots is not easy to use, especially with a nitrous motor. you can hurt parts that way. you cant ride the dots like you can with a turbo car or blower car.

[fogged10]

the dots is not easy to use, especially with a nitrous motor. you can hurt parts that way. you cant ride the dots like you can with a turbo car or blower car.

i'm lost what are dots?

[DOUGHBOY RACING]

Its a way to graph Rpm spikes as in spinning , if it detects the spike it will pull timing drop power and straighten you back out

[johnquick302]

i'm lost what are dots?

it graphs the rpm rate and if it spikes it means it spinning the tires, so it pulls timing out to kill power so it dont spin anymore, that is why drag radial cars are so fast. but with nitrous if you pull too much timing it will hurt the motor.

[johnquick302]

i have the 7531 box but have never tried that option yet. it works good for all the retards and limiters for everything. the box is really trick you can pull timing out of each cyl independtly, has every function you can think of with lauch rpm, burnout, max rpm limiter. 3 stages of retards for nitrous, adj start retard. different shift light in each gear, has a logger that can replay the run and see max rpms, converter flash, timing, everything. its a badass box. its expensive but if you can learn it it will def help you in the long run.

[camaromann]

detonation beats up the pistons and bearings. and too much timing will lead to detonation.

Right. I understand that. But my motor has absolutely no pre-detonation. I messed with the timing for a while on the dyno when my car was on it at the end of last year. It seems to actually like it.

[camaromann]

yea and 40-42 that seems like an awful lot of timing just my $.02!

Well you are entitled to your $.02...and if i did not see it for myself i would agree with you 100%. I dont understand it. I just know that other people (some are well known) have done this same thing on sbc's and ran for years...the motors just seem to like it.

[camaromann]

Just remember on a digital 6 you are limited to 9 degrees of timing that you can retard, so that alone you wont be able to hit it with 2 kits

I myself am not looking to hit 2 kits. I have only sprayed 100hp at the car and am looking at a 200-250hp shot with a controller over maybe like 3 seconds. Just not sure how much time to bump out. The ignition i run is a 6AL. So i set it at the distributor if i know im spraying. I would like a digital 6 box but i dont want to spend the money on one right now. Anybody have one they want to sell?

[DOUGHBOY RACING]

We pull 2 degrees for every 50 that we put to it, but we also play it safe some people do things different but we follow NOS advice

[DOUGHBOY RACING]

On the timing issue I know lots of guys running 40 Degrees of timing and motors love it, but I am also a chevy guy cant speak for the Ford folks. These are high compression Raised runner type motors mind you.

[1BADAIR]

that does seem like alot. I know its an ls1 but I run 40 at cruise and 28 WOT N/A
My elcamino liked 34 NA

[camaromann]

that does seem like alot. I know its an ls1 but I run 40 at cruise and 28 WOT N/A
My elcamino liked 34 NA

Yup. Mine is 22'ish degrees at start and i think the smallest mechanical advance bushing i could even get was 18 degrees. The timing is also fully advanced at about 2000-2200 rpm's. So basically anytime im driving it, it is damn near fully advanced.

[johnquick302]

I myself am not looking to hit 2 kits. I have only sprayed 100hp at the car and am looking at a 200-250hp shot with a controller over maybe like 3 seconds. Just not sure how much time to bump out. The ignition i run is a 6AL. So i set it at the distributor if i know im spraying. I would like a digital 6 box but i dont want to spend the money on one right now. Anybody have one they want to sell?

why do you want to run a controller. they slow you down. unless your car goes on the bumper and just blows the tires away there is no need for one. and my buddy does have a dig 6 box for sale brand new i can find out today how much he wants

[DOUGHBOY RACING]

Plus a controller pulses the solenoids and wears them out real fast. Very costly to keep rebuilding them. Control it all with timing

[camaromann]

why do you want to run a controller. they slow you down. unless your car goes on the bumper and just blows the tires away there is no need for one. and my buddy does have a dig 6 box for sale brand new i can find out today how much he wants

At the end of last year the car picked the front end up about 2-3 feet off the ground on motor and im not sure how much more i picked it up on spray(100hp). Im afraid that on a 200-250hp shot the car will either 1. not hook 2. do like you said and plant the back bumper on the ground 3. destroy the motor with a hit that big and all at once. The main reason for the controller was to ease the motor from taking the sudden hit of nitrous. I know it will hold together then, but i am very skeptical of the motor surviving all 250 at once more then a handful of times.

[camaromann]

Plus a controller pulses the solenoids and wears them out real fast. Very costly to keep rebuilding them. Control it all with timing

Right. Im aware the controller pulses the solenoids and wears them out. I would rather rebuild/replace the solenoids every year or so then drop $10,000 or more on a new motor. And as for controlling it with timing. I heard of some people's ignitions taking timing out on the launch and then bumping timing back in automatically as they get going down the track.....but only to whatever s they specified the total timing at.

[DOUGHBOY RACING]

With a 7 programmable you spray it all up front and pull out more timing on the launch then slowly ramp it back in once the car hooks and is on its way. That way is easier as you want to hit the tire and chasis with as much as it can handle. Its possible you need a chasis adjustment if it wheelstands to bad or maybe put weight up front. Just an idea

[camaromann]

Ya jq. see how much your buddy would want for the box. I would appreciate it.

[DOUGHBOY RACING]

A nitrous motor is not gonna live as long as a procharged or a turbo car no matter what you do, as long as you got a lightweight rotating asssembly and valve train it will however increase the time between rebulds

[DOUGHBOY RACING]

Big thing is dont lean it out LOL:blaster:

[camaromann]

Im just worried because the rod bolts only say they are rated at i think either 750hp or 850hp. The rods themselves and the crank are good up to 1400hp with proper rod bolts. I was told if i hit with anything over 150hp then i would be pressing my luck. But if i introduced the nitrous at a slightly slower pace the motor would be just fine.

[camaromann]

Big thing is dont lean it out LOL:blaster:

LOL. done that before on a previous bs motor. My pistons became about half their size...plus numerous other snapped parts.....eh, oh well....i learned then how to keep a pretty safe tune.

[DOUGHBOY RACING]

If its rod bolts your worried about they can fail at the top end also especially hitting with spray, but I would be more concerned about Rpm

[camaromann]

If its rod bolts your worried about they can fail at the top end also especially hitting with spray, but I would be more concerned about Rpm

It will hit about 7500rpm. I wont push it beyond their anyways. Stock block sbc.

[igotaneed4speed]

Im just worried because the rod bolts only say they are rated at i think either 750hp or 850hp. The rods themselves and the crank are good up to 1400hp with proper rod bolts. I was told if i hit with anything over 150hp then i would be pressing my luck. But if i introduced the nitrous at a slightly slower pace the motor would be just fine.

If its rod bolts your worried about they can fail at the top end also especially hitting with spray, but I would be more concerned about Rpm


Rpm is your is like the devil shits cool as hell but can ruin your day fast which sucks with nitrous motors they like to scream at least everyone i put together has..

My shity big block has factory car rods in it prob the worst rod ever made for it. Then put heavy ass 800+ gram trw slugs on the end of it and you got a bomb.

I havent had it on the rollers yet but for the mph I seen outa it I'm gunna say its close to 650-700 hp with a solid tune on the on kit. I have yet to spin it hard on the kit 6k shifts tried to go higher once an it started to pop (valve springs) It has gone to 7400 on the motor though when i was to busy watching someone get smaller in the mirror than paying attention to what i was doing.

I'm sure it'll come apart this year should be a mess when it does.

[DOUGHBOY RACING]

I wouldnt sweat it then your not pushing it

[camaromann]

I wouldnt sweat it then your not pushing it

Are you talking to me about the rpm (7500) with the 200-250 shot?

[DOUGHBOY RACING]

Yea

[camaromann]

Cool. thanks.

[camaromann]

Just out of curiosity....how much have you or do you spray out of the hole?

[fogged10]

Just out of curiosity....how much have you or do you spray out of the hole?

lol

he won't tell ya th truth!

[camaromann]

lol

he won't tell ya th truth!

Well..do you know of anyone hitting their cars with 250 shots right out of the hole and hooking? And not on a back half, tube chassis, or a 4 link set up.

[igotaneed4speed]

Well..do you know of anyone hitting their cars with 250 shots right out of the hole and hooking? And not on a back half, tube chassis, or a 4 link set up.



several.. my car for instance (avatar pic).. and it don't even have a anti roll bar on it yet.

The pic is from a 175 ish hit the photo guy wasnt there sunday to get the better pics when i started to get it sorted out

[fogged10]

Well..do you know of anyone hitting their cars with 250 shots right out of the hole and hooking? And not on a back half, tube chassis, or a 4 link set up.

why yes i do! lol

[camaromann]

Alright. Good enough. :ty:

[1bad Lad]

F that. I dont feel like reprograming my car every time i change something. and no, im not going stand alone.
r u serious....run a efi system and a nitrous controller and i don't even have to pop the hood....playa.......oh thats right you'd rather take your carb apart everytime u wanna change something...now thats retarded

[johnquick302]

Well..do you know of anyone hitting their cars with 250 shots right out of the hole and hooking? And not on a back half, tube chassis, or a 4 link set up.

i hit mine with more than that wtih a 28x10.5 tire and it 60ft 1.25 all day.

[johnquick302]

r u serious....run a efi system and a nitrous controller and i don't even have to pop the hood....playa.......oh thats right you'd rather take your carb apart everytime u wanna change something...now thats retarded

how bout this playa, run your fuel injection with controller next to me and i bet ill whoop you everytime. wihtout popping my hood.

[fogged10]

how bout this playa, run your fuel injection with controller next to me and i bet ill whoop you everytime.



playa! lmfao

[1bad Lad]

how bout this playa, run your fuel injection with controller next to me and i bet ill whoop you everytime. without popping my hood. well fact is whoever has more money is ganna win PLAYA....and well prolly isn't me ......lol and i'd love to see anyone try to do individual cylinder tuning with a carburator....can it ben done...yes can it be done as accurately as an efi system.....not ganna happen i guess u can't teach old dogs new tricks....

[bigg]

how bout this playa, run your fuel injection with controller next to me and i bet ill whoop you everytime. wihtout popping my hood.

I cant believe i just gave j-quick pos rep on this one HAHAHHAHAHHAHAA

PLAYA

[DOUGHBOY RACING]

That was pretty good but I would hate to be tagged as a playa hata :btchfight

[camaromann]

r u serious....run a efi system and a nitrous controller and i don't even have to pop the hood....playa.......oh thats right you'd rather take your carb apart everytime u wanna change something...now thats retarded

takes me maybe 15-20 min total to take it off the car, take it apart, change what i want, back together, and back on the car. My jets are a few bucks, same with gaskets and a power valve. How much are your fuel injectors? Couple hundred dollars? And to re flash or re tune your computer? That usually runs my buddy's about $200-$300 each time, plus your car is down because you sent the computer out. Unless you want to spend a few grand on a stand alone system.

[camaromann]

i hit mine with more than that wtih a 28x10.5 tire and it 60ft 1.25 all day.

You hit your car with 250 or more right out of the hole? Damn. Didnt think you could do that and hook. Not without tubing your car and 4 linking it anyways.

[johnquick302]

well fact is whoever has more money is ganna win PLAYA....and well prolly isn't me ......lol and i'd love to see anyone try to do individual cylinder tuning with a carburator....can it ben done...yes can it be done as accurately as an efi system.....not ganna happen i guess u can't teach old dogs new tricks....

how much is it gonna cost you to pay somebody to tune your car for you? when i can tune mine with a screwdriver. and with a dig 7 box you can tune each cyl independtly. and a carb set up is cheaper than fuel injection shit so if your a broke bitch it would be easier and cheaper to do it with a carb. so i guess you aint teaching nobody shit. your just talking shit out your ass.

[johnquick302]

I cant believe i just gave j-quick pos rep on this one HAHAHHAHAHHAHAA

PLAYA

lol

[camaromann]

how much is it gonna cost you to pay somebody to tune your car for you? when i can tune mine with a screwdriver. and with a dig 7 box you can tune each cyl independtly. and a carb set up is cheaper than fuel injection shit so if your a broke bitch it would be easier and cheaper to do it with a carb. so i guess you aint teaching nobody shit. your just talking shit out your ass.

LOL! I said the same thing...:cheers:

[johnquick302]

You hit your car with 250 or more right out of the hole? Damn. Didnt think you could do that and hook. Not without tubing your car and 4 linking it anyways.if you dont spray your car out of the hole you mine as well not even race. all your et is in the first 330 of a race. the rest dont matter much you can go 10mph faster but if i beat you to the 330 im gonna win most of the times

this is my car, 28x10.5 stock suspension all the nitrous right off the transbrake

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb40/388monte/th_08092203.jpg (http://s204.photobucket.com/albums/bb40/388monte/?action=view&current=08092203.flv)

[camaromann]

if you dont spray your car out of the hole you mine as well not even race. all your et is in the first 330 of a race. the rest dont matter much you can go 10mph faster but if i beat you to the 330 im gonna win most of the times

this is my car, 28x10.5 stock suspension all the nitrous right off the transbrake

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb40/388monte/th_08092203.jpg (http://s204.photobucket.com/albums/bb40/388monte/?action=view&current=08092203.flv)

Ya, i agree. After messing around with nitrous, i realized that if i sprayed right out of the hole only through first gear, that my car would go just as fast as me hitting it only in 2 and 3 gear. I came to the same conclusion that you explained. Just wasnt sure how much some people were hitting there cars with from the tree. Kinda looks like you blew the tires off a little bit.....or was it mostly exhaust from the bottle?

[johnquick302]

Ya, i agree. After messing around with nitrous, i realized that if i sprayed right out of the hole only through first gear, that my car would go just as fast as me hitting it only in 2 and 3 gear. I came to the same conclusion that you explained. Just wasnt sure how much some people were hitting there cars with from the tree. Kinda looks like you blew the tires off a little bit.....or was it mostly exhaust from the bottle?it was exhaust. if the car is not set up right it will spin and go on the bumper. it took alot of time to get it to work like it does now but i got it figured out pretty much.

[camaromann]

it was exhaust. if the car is not set up right it will spin and go on the bumper. it took alot of time to get it to work like it does now but i got it figured out pretty much.

Well thats good to hear. And your car obviously works great. Any advice for a leaf spring car? And did you get any word on that digi 6 box?

[1bad Lad]

how much is it gonna cost you to pay somebody to tune your car for you? when i can tune mine with a screwdriver. and with a dig 7 box you can tune each cyl independtly. and a carb set up is cheaper than fuel injection shit so if your a broke bitch it would be easier and cheaper to do it with a carb. so i guess you aint teaching nobody shit. your just talking shit out your ass.

if someone bought an aftermarket system why would they need to pay someone to tune it when it would come with the software. at most u pay for dyno time if u decided to use a dyno. yea i agree a digital 7 box is the shit. but lets read back i'm pretty sure i typed electronic fuel injection system....pretty sure that means fuel control not ignition control. if i was to run a system it would do both. sorry but your carburator isn't ganna compensate if someone has an intake manifold that is flowin more air to some cylinders than others....and yup ur right i ain't teachin anybody shit. how can i teach someone something that they don't care to understand........and why would u write something back so ignorant when all i stated is efi systems are fucken sweet.

[camaromann]

if someone bought an aftermarket system why would they need to pay someone to tune it when it would come with the software. at most u pay for dyno time if u decided to use a dyno. yea i agree a digital 7 box is the shit. but lets read back i'm pretty sure i typed electronic fuel injection system....pretty sure that means fuel control not ignition control. if i was to run a system it would do both. sorry but your carburator isn't ganna compensate if someone has an intake manifold that is flowin more air to some cylinders than others....and yup ur right i ain't teachin anybody shit. how can i teach someone something that they don't care to understand........and why would u write something back so ignorant when all i stated is efi systems are fucken sweet.

I dont think efi system are very sweet. However I do think stand alone systems are pretty cool.....they seem like a good idea for efi guys.

[johnquick302]

Well thats good to hear. And your car obviously works great. Any advice for a leaf spring car? And did you get any word on that digi 6 box?

its brand new in the box he said 250

[camaromann]

its brand new in the box he said 250

Alright cool. That box is going to automatically take however much timing out i want (within its capabilities) whenever the nitrous is activated?

[johnquick302]

if someone bought an aftermarket system why would they need to pay someone to tune it when it would come with the software. at most u pay for dyno time if u decided to use a dyno. yea i agree a digital 7 box is the shit. but lets read back i'm pretty sure i typed electronic fuel injection system....pretty sure that means fuel control not ignition control. if i was to run a system it would do both. sorry but your carburator isn't ganna compensate if someone has an intake manifold that is flowin more air to some cylinders than others....and yup ur right i ain't teachin anybody shit. how can i teach someone something that they don't care to understand........and why would u write something back so ignorant when all i stated is efi systems are fucken sweet.

why are the fastest nitrous cars in the world carburated? to think of it i cant think of anybody going fast with fuel injection and nitrous to be honest. fuel injection is sweet with turbos and blowers. but its big money for all the fuel injection shit. and its not as easy as you think to tune a car with a computer. just cause you got the software dont mean your a tuner.

[johnquick302]

Alright cool. That box is going to automatically take however much timing out i want (within its capabilities) whenever the nitrous is activated?

it has 1 retard on it that can take 9.9 deg of timing out. so if your spraying what you say your gonna it will be enough for you. you wire 1 wire to your solenoids so when they get power it will pull timing out instantly.

[1bad Lad]

I dont think efi system are very sweet. However I do think stand alone systems are pretty cool.....they seem like a good idea for efi guys.

have u ever used, operated or even completely understand an engine control system? if not then how can anyone have an opinion on it if they don't understand what they are judging?????

[johnquick302]

have u ever used, operated or even completely understand an engine control system? if not then how can anyone have an opinion on it if they don't understand what they are judging?????

im going by facts. show me a fast car with fuel injection on nitrous and ill show you a faster one with carb and nitrous.

[camaromann]

it has 1 retard on it that can take 9.9 deg of timing out. so if your spraying what you say your gonna it will be enough for you. you wire 1 wire to your solenoids so when they get power it will pull timing out instantly.

Cool. Im sure it has instructions and diagrams with it. You have any advice for getting a leaf spring car to hook on that much bottle. Or do you know of anyone good to talk to?

[johnquick302]

Cool. Im sure it has instructions and diagrams with it. You have any advice for getting a leaf spring car to hook on that much bottle. Or do you know of anyone good to talk to?

call rich at pro racecraft eng, 313-525-0666 one of the best suspension guys around.

[camaromann]

have u ever used, operated or even completely understand an engine control system? if not then how can anyone have an opinion on it if they don't understand what they are judging?????

I have used one briefly. And unfortunately most of my friends use them. I help them with it a lot. They are a pain in the ass to me. Im always telling them that if their motors had a carb. their shit would be tuned cheaper, easier, and faster then with efi. They get mad whenever they want to change something and find out they need $500 more in software.

[1bad Lad]

why are the fastest nitrous cars in the world carburated? to think of it i cant think of anybody going fast with fuel injection and nitrous to be honest. fuel injection is sweet with turbos and blowers. but its big money for all the fuel injection shit. and its not as easy as you think to tune a car with a computer. just cause you got the software dont mean your a tuner.
have u ever heard of harold martin....he's right over in novi. pretty sure he's running 800 inch bigblocks with 4 dry kits with a custom electronic engine managment system. going 6.0 @ 230+mph. pretty sure that in the ballpark of the fastes in the world. man i got nothing against u...i'm just tryin to point out some facts here......i mean wouldn't u rather spend a lil more money on a system that can have way more control over an engine...i mean some people spend thousand of dallars on their engines. so when they are 5 engines deep because they can't get the intake right and their burning up pistons maybe the efi system that can add or subtract fuel per cyclinder isn't such a bad idea.....i agree that just because someone has software doesn't make them a tuner...i strongly agree with that....

[camaromann]

call rich at pro racecraft eng, 313-525-0666 one of the best suspension guys around.

Thanks. ill pm you when ill have the time to check out that box.

[1bad Lad]

I have used one briefly. And unfortunately most of my friends use them. I help them with it a lot. They are a pain in the ass to me. Im always telling them that if their motors had a carb. their shit would be tuned cheaper, easier, and faster then with efi. They get mad whenever they want to change something and find out they need $500 more in software.
right on...well your right if somone doesn't know much about electronic systems then yea it can get confusing and can fuck shit up real quick. yea i know it does cost about 500 for a retune but assuming can do it by one self then a retune is nothing but cruisin around a lil bit......i like cruisin and i don't even have to pop the hood. i guess i like to drive more than work on the car... lol.....

[johnquick302]

have u ever heard of harold martin....he's right over in novi. pretty sure he's running 800 inch bigblocks with 4 dry kits with a custom electronic engine managment system. going 6.0 @ 230+mph. pretty sure that in the ballpark of the fastes in the world. man i got nothing against u...i'm just tryin to point out some facts here......i mean wouldn't u rather spend a lil more money on a system that can have way more control over an engine...i mean some people spend thousand of dallars on their engines. so when they are 5 engines deep because they can't get the intake right and their burning up pistons maybe the efi system that can add or subtract fuel per cyclinder isn't such a bad idea.....

harold martin is the only person there is going fast with fuel injection. there are a few faster cars than him with carb

[camaromann]

right on...well your right if somone doesn't know much about electronic systems then yea it can get confusing and can fuck shit up real quick. yea i know it does cost about 500 for a retune but assuming can do it by one self then a retune is nothing but cruisin around a lil bit......i like cruisin and i don't even have to pop the hood. i guess i like to drive more than work on the car... lol.....

Agreed. But I also dont ever pop my hood for anything. Only if im going to the track or elsewhere to race. Thats it.

[johnquick302]

right on...well your right if somone doesn't know much about electronic systems then yea it can get confusing and can fuck shit up real quick. yea i know it does cost about 500 for a retune but assuming can do it by one self then a retune is nothing but cruisin around a lil bit......i like cruisin and i don't even have to pop the hood. i guess i like to drive more than work on the car... lol.....

how fast is your car?

[DOUGHBOY RACING]

Shit I have been watching Harold running the ADRL deal that guy cant even get down the track anymore, bad example there use Billy Glidden as a role model

[johnquick302]

Shit I have been watching Harold running the ADRL deal that guy cant even get down the track anymore, bad example there use Billy Glidden as a role model

billy glidden uses a carb right? and billy is the man, im guessing if the fuel injection was so much better he would be all about it.

[johnquick302]

http://speedtechnitrous.com/images/photosNitrousSystems/cigar06/cigaro.jpg

[1bad Lad]

harold martin is the only person there is going fast with fuel injection. there are a few faster cars than him with carb

i agree there are a few cars faster than him....but i am not comparing whos car is faster....there is more to how fast a car is than just how the engine runs and i know that u know that. i am simply comparing a carburator to an efi system. completely leaving the vehicle out of it. and bottom line is that there is a lot more control with and electronic engine managment system.....my car is not very fast....i do enjoy drag racing but like u said i'm a broke bitch...so i'd rather keep my car to a form of i can get decent gas milage make some good power and be able to go wherever i may feel like.

[DOUGHBOY RACING]

Yea Glidden a 384 SBF and carbureted busting mountain motors with superchargers

[Pwraddr]

http://speedtechnitrous.com/images/photosNitrousSystems/cigar06/cigaro.jpg

JQ, I told you not to show that off!

[1bad Lad]

billy glidden uses a carb right? and billy is the man, im guessing if the fuel injection was so much better he would be all about it.
i'm not saying that efi is ganna be better in billy gliddens situation but why don't u ask him if he has ever tried it. prolly hasn't so for anyone to say that it is or isn't better is just bein sarcastic.

[1bad Lad]

Yea Glidden a 384 SBF and carbureted busting mountain motors with superchargers

yea and look at how light the car is.....now you all r comparing cars.....not efi to carbs

[johnquick302]

i agree there are a few cars faster than him....but i am not comparing whos car is faster....there is more to how fast a car is than just how the engine runs and i know that u know that. i am simply comparing a carburator to an efi system. completely leaving the vehicle out of it. and bottom line is that there is a lot more control with and electronic engine managment system.....my car is not very fast....i do enjoy drag racing but like u said i'm a broke bitch...so i'd rather keep my car to a form of i can get decent gas milage make some good power and be able to go wherever i may feel like.

but what can you do with your car that i cant with a carb car? i put jets in it just like you have too, you pull timing wtih a computer i pull it with a ign box. i spend 800 on a carb and nitrous kit, you spend 1000s on fuel injectors, mass air metes, throttle bodies, fuel management system, and a dry nitrous kit you can only blow 180hp through. and tuning time to get it right. i can put a tune in a carb car and almost know it will be right the first pass. and still drive it everywhere. it might not get good gas mileage but nitrous is only used a 1/4mile at a time.

[johnquick302]

i'm not saying that efi is ganna be better in billy gliddens situation but why don't u ask him if he has ever tried it. prolly hasn't so for anyone to say that it is or isn't better is just bein sarcastic.

billy glidden will try it if he think it will work. he is the baddest man out there with that stuff, im sure if he thought it would make him go faster it would be on his car.

[DOUGHBOY RACING]

Billy told me at an event that if people really knew how little he was spraying that motor that they would really be embarrassed

[camaromann]

http://speedtechnitrous.com/images/photosNitrousSystems/cigar06/cigaro.jpg

That thing is a fucking monstrosity! WTF!

[1BADAIR]

someone say nitrous?

[johnquick302]

http://speedtechnitrous.com/images/photosNitrousSystems/cigar06/cigaro.jpg

yeah it will look like that or this, lol

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff288/johnquick302/bullshit/73620216-S.jpg

[johnquick302]

someone say nitrous?

nice pic

[DOUGHBOY RACING]

Johnny you are the next generation of Mike Moran LOL:punchball

[1bad Lad]

but what can you do with your car that i cant with a carb car? i put jets in it just like you have too, you pull timing wtih a computer i pull it with a ign box. i spend 800 on a carb and nitrous kit, you spend 1000s on fuel injectors, mass air metes, throttle bodies, fuel management system, and a dry nitrous kit you can only blow 180hp through. and tuning time to get it right. i can put a tune in a carb car and almost know it will be right the first pass. and still drive it everywhere. it might not get good gas mileage but nitrous is only used a 1/4mile at a time.

i by no mean disagree with what ur saying. what my car can do that yours can not is automatically make fuel changes and spark changes for temperature and elevation without popin the hood. i can make fuel changes in milliseconds per cylinder. i can run a closed loop set up with a wideband so maybe for some reason the fuel pressure drops oh shit now i'm lean so then it can add some fuel and take out some timing automatically. save my 20000 dallar engine. my system runs at 60psi so if i drop 1 psi chances r its not ganna go lean.....your 8-9 psi system u drop a half psi on a big nitrous kit and shit happends quick. i mean the list can go on and on.......i am not sayin that you can make an ungodly more amount of power with an efi system what i am stating is that they are more tunable more safe more controls.....

[johnquick302]

i by no mean disagree with what ur saying. what my car can do that yours can not is automatically make fuel changes and spark changes for temperature and elevation without popin the hood. i can make fuel changes in milliseconds per cylinder. i can run a closed loop set up with a wideband so maybe for some reason the fuel pressure drops oh shit now i'm lean so then it can add some fuel and take out some timing automatically. save my 20000 dallar engine. my system runs at 60psi so if i drop 1 psi chances r its not ganna go lean.....your 8-9 psi system u drop a half psi on a big nitrous kit and shit happends quick. i mean the list can go on and on.......i am not sayin that you can make an ungodly more amount of power with an efi system what i am stating is that they are more tunable more safe more controls.....

thats why you have a good fuel pump so it wont drop no pressure. the only thing fuel injection can do over carb motor is driveability. it wont make more hp or go faster.

[johnquick302]

Johnny you are the next generation of Mike Moran LOL:punchball

mike moran knows his shit. i just get lucky and go to the right people for the work i do have done. i just wish i could go back in time cause all the parts on my car were pretty much availble back in the day so it would have been badass to beat up on all those crazy combos they had then.

[DOUGHBOY RACING]

You probably know more now than then also building it is one thing tuning is a whole other game that most guys never get it right

[1bad Lad]

thats why you have a good fuel pump so it wont drop no pressure. the only thing fuel injection can do over carb motor is driveability. it wont make more hp or go faster.

yea i agree a good fuel pump is ideal but shit doesn't last forever. never said it will make more power or go faster just said u will have way more control of your engine and u don't have to pop the hood....well i'm outta here i've made my point.

[1BADAIR]

all n20 systems should be flowed before use for that reason

[BLKHAWK]

thats why you have a good fuel pump so it wont drop no pressure. the only thing fuel injection can do over carb motor is driveability. it wont make more hp or go faster.

EFI or carb, tuning is tuning its fuel and timing. Engine requirements are what they are. guys like billy glidden may not use efi cause there current set up works. A lot of people are afraid of EFI, systems like fast and big stuff are getting easier to run so they can market them better. factory engine management on the other hand isnt as easy.

I'm not knocking carbs or EFI. However I didnt see widebands in anyones carb car untill efi got popular.

[BLKHAWK]

carb 800.00
dis7plus 700.00
n20 controller 300.00
jet kit 80.00
power valves 50.00
wide band 300.00





f.a.s.t xfi 2000.00
factory efi free

[Pwraddr]

carb 800.00
dis7plus 700.00
n20 controller 300.00
jet kit 80.00
power valves 50.00
wide band 300.00





f.a.s.t xfi 2000.00
factory efi free

Forgot MANY necessary components with the EFI example....

[BLKHAWK]

Forgot MANY necessary components with the EFI example....

I forgot a snap on screwdriver for the carb stuff too lol

[BLKHAWK]

Forgot MANY necessary components with the EFI example....

I left out crank trigger for both set-ups seeing both would prolly use them.
efi would need inj. and TB as well. I don't know if I consider that MANY or not

[1BADAIR]

power valves? who uses those these days

[1bad Lad]

Forgot MANY necessary components with the EFI example....
about the only part that may need to be upgraded on a factory efi system is the injectors and for boosted cars maybe a map sensor that is if they aren't running a maf. bigger fuel rails and lines is part of the fuel system not the electronic system. pretty sure carbs need big lines and pump also......so i'm curious to what the many parts that may be needed??? jquick have u ever had a wideband in your car?????

[johnquick302]

I left out crank trigger for both set-ups seeing both would prolly use them.
efi would need inj. and TB as well. I don't know if I consider that MANY or not

no crank trigger needed, you dont ahve to run a dig 7 either. the only functions i use on mine is the retards if i wanted too i could lock the timing down for 1kit and use the retard on a dig 6 for the 2nd kit.

nobody uses a controller only people who dont know how to make their shit work or run a drag radial and going fast

who uses a wide band? plug reading is the best way to go

what does a power valve have to do with nitrous?

and for your example for fuel injection, what is a fast or big stuff 3 gonna do sitting in a box, you still have to have the knowledge to use it.

[johnquick302]

I left out crank trigger for both set-ups seeing both would prolly use them.
efi would need inj. and TB as well. I don't know if I consider that MANY or not

ok lets set a budget and i bet ill go faster with a carb and nitrous then you will with fuel injection and nitrous.

[johnquick302]

about the only part that may need to be upgraded on a factory efi system is the injectors and for boosted cars maybe a map sensor that is if they aren't running a maf. bigger fuel rails and lines is part of the fuel system not the electronic system. pretty sure carbs need big lines and pump also......so i'm curious to what the many parts that may be needed??? jquick have u ever had a wideband in your car?????

no i read the plugs. only true way to do it.widebands dont work cause it will change reading on where you put the 02 bung at. a plug reading tells you everything.

[1BADAIR]

no i read the plugs. only true way to do it.widebands dont work cause it will change reading on where you put the 02 bung at. a plug reading tells you everything.
yep. the wideband will show total a/f but you still could have rich and lean cylinders

[BLKHAWK]

yep. the wideband will show total a/f but you still could have rich and lean cylinders

true story. now tell me JQ how do you adjust individual cylinder trims on a carb mtr. with a dis 6 box?

your dis 7 has EFI technology. you can pull timing, use traction control, adjust individual cyl. etc.

I agree when pushing the edge plug reading is the only way, afr only gets you in the ballpark.

[BLKHAWK]

ok lets set a budget and i bet ill go faster with a carb and nitrous then you will with fuel injection and nitrous.

Im game with this, but its not who goes faster its who makes more power.

[Fryguy302]

If I ran nitrous or N/A I'd definitely still run a carb. I held out as long as I could to switch to EFI, I think it was in like 93 I finally switched, and only because I got addicted to boost. It's the best way with boost.

EFI is a lot more expensive though, the fuel pumps, regulators, injectors, throttle bodies, rails, computer, and tuning all add up.

[Fryguy302]

true story. now tell me JQ how do you adjust individual cylinder trims on a carb mtr. with a dis 6 box?.

Just curious, why do you guys feel that individual cylinder control is so important? I can see if you're heads up class racing or something and you have to go .001 better than the next guy with the exact same parts or something, but for most of us on this board, I don't see why it's necessary. I've never used any of that stuff, never once had a car tuned near the edge (except back in the day with a KB and 300deg ACT), and I've run from 13's to 8s at all different boost levels.

I know the intake flows different depending on the cylinder, but I've never had a car that was on edge enough to matter.

[dante1120]

Just curious, why do you guys feel that individual cylinder control is so important? I can see if you're heads up class racing or something and you have to go .001 better than the next guy with the exact same parts or something, but for most of us on this board, I don't see why it's necessary. I've never used any of that stuff, never once had a car tuned near the edge (except back in the day with a KB and 300deg ACT), and I've run from 13's to 8s at all different boost levels.

I know the intake flows different depending on the cylinder, but I've never had a car that was on edge enough to matter.
At least you admit you run in the 8s.LOL

[BLKHAWK]

Just curious, why do you guys feel that individual cylinder control is so important? I can see if you're heads up class racing or something and you have to go .001 better than the next guy with the exact same parts or something, but for most of us on this board, I don't see why it's necessary. I've never used any of that stuff, never once had a car tuned near the edge (except back in the day with a KB and 300deg ACT), and I've run from 13's to 8s at all different boost levels.

I know the intake flows different depending on the cylinder, but I've never had a car that was on edge enough to matter.

I've had to use it with a car that had a piss pour intake and a big plate on it. and that individual cyl correction was done with factory engine management.

[BLKHAWK]

If I ran nitrous or N/A I'd definitely still run a carb. I held out as long as I could to switch to EFI, I think it was in like 93 I finally switched, and only because I got addicted to boost. It's the best way with boost.

EFI is a lot more expensive though, the fuel pumps, regulators, injectors, throttle bodies, rails, computer, and tuning all add up.

fuel pumps and regulators are needed wether its efi or carbed, injectors and TB and computer are offset by the price of a good carb and dis box. tuning is required with a carb or efi.

[johnquick302]

true story. now tell me JQ how do you adjust individual cylinder trims on a carb mtr. with a dis 6 box?

your dis 7 has EFI technology. you can pull timing, use traction control, adjust individual cyl. etc.

I agree when pushing the edge plug reading is the only way, afr only gets you in the ballpark.

you can do it with jets. and i put 450hp through my 360ci motor and didnt pull any timing out of any cyl. i pulled the same amount from every one.

[johnquick302]

I've had to use it with a car that had a piss pour intake and a big plate on it. and that individual cyl correction was done with factory engine management.

then that is your bad, get a better intake. ive dont quite a few carbs with plates and sprayed alot through them. never had to pull timing out of 1 cyl or the other. if the corners were detonating i pull 1 deg out of everything to make up for it. how fast was the car you are talking about? i hope your not basing your opinions on a 11sec car.

[Fryguy302]

At least you admit you run in the 8s.LOL

8.90's are stil 8s!

I've had to use it with a car that had a piss pour intake and a big plate on it. and that individual cyl correction was done with factory engine management.

What intake was that piss poor? Why not just put a better intake on it? Was it an EFI intake? If so, that's another reason to run a carburator.

fuel pumps and regulators are needed wether its efi or carbed, injectors and TB and computer are offset by the price of a good carb and dis box. tuning is required with a carb or efi.

Yeah but they are cheaper, at least at some power levels. A carb/nitrous car can go a long way with a mallory 140 and a holly blue. An efi car needs a real pump to go as fast as that setup can go. Injectors and TB are way more expensive than a good carb, at least last time I checked. Plus the intakes themselves are more expensive aren't they?

[Fryguy302]

But trust me I think EFI/Boost is the way to go, that's why I did it. I just wouldn't do it for a nitrous car.

[johnquick302]

But trust me I think EFI/Boost is the way to go, that's why I did it. I just wouldn't do it for a nitrous car.

exactly what i said. with boost its more important for the engine management then it is with nitrous since your tuning everything with the nitrous through the jets and timing.

[BLKHAWK]

8.90's are stil 8s!



What intake was that piss poor? Why not just put a better intake on it? Was it an EFI intake? If so, that's another reason to run a carburator.



Yeah but they are cheaper, at least at some power levels. A carb/nitrous car can go a long way with a mallory 140 and a holly blue. An efi car needs a real pump to go as fast as that setup can go. Injectors and TB are way more expensive than a good carb, at least last time I checked. Plus the intakes themselves are more expensive aren't they?

It was an lt1 intake, 2 walbros wont keep up with a holley blue? there s.d 55#s for sale on this board for 150.00 If I was gonna build a big efi nitrous car id use a carb'd intake

[BLKHAWK]

then that is your bad, get a better intake. ive dont quite a few carbs with plates and sprayed alot through them. never had to pull timing out of 1 cyl or the other. if the corners were detonating i pull 1 deg out of everything to make up for it. how fast was the car you are talking about? i hope your not basing your opinions on a 11sec car.

Exactly it was my bad I couldn't afford to build the car the way I wanted. the car i"m basing my opinions off made 700rwhp through a th400

[BLKHAWK]

I believe the argument is whats faster efi or carb? an engine's requirement's are what they are. I'm not knocking carbs, there a lot more fast carb cars than there are efi cars. I believe this is the way it is because a lot of guys can turn screws, but the guys who can dial in an efi car are far and few between.

[Fryguy302]

It was an lt1 intake, 2 walbros wont keep up with a holley blue? there s.d 55#s for sale on this board for 150.00 If I was gonna build a big efi nitrous car id use a carb'd intake

Well normally you use the blue just for the nitrous and the mallory or something for the motor when using a carb setup.

I'm not arguing really, just debating it the way I remember it last time I thought about it. I'm sure you probably know more about an EFI/nitrous combo than I do, but we just had to make these decisions in 07 with the Pinks car. Tell me how you'd have gone that fast with EFI for that money?

That was a 351w, vic jr intake, big shot plate, mallory 140 I think, and a holly blue.

Now for efi the way you describe it, we'd have to convert the victor for injector bungs, buy fuel rails, buy a GOOD pump, buy big injectors, buy engine management, etc. To use factory EFI we'd need a custom chip and big ass MAF meter also.

If you used an EFI intake it would cost more than a vic jr, PLUS the nitrous distribution would suck. Keep in mind that car went 9.40s, so the EFI components would have to support that.

[BLKHAWK]

Well normally you use the blue just for the nitrous and the mallory or something for the motor when using a carb setup.

I'm not arguing really, just debating it the way I remember it last time I thought about it. I'm sure you probably know more about an EFI/nitrous combo than I do, but we just had to make these decisions in 07 with the Pinks car. Tell me how you'd have gone that fast with EFI for that money?

That was a 351w, vic jr intake, big shot plate, mallory 140 I think, and a holly blue.

Now for efi the way you describe it, we'd have to convert the victor for injector bungs, buy fuel rails, buy a GOOD pump, buy big injectors, buy engine management, etc. To use factory EFI we'd need a custom chip and big ass MAF meter also.

If you used an EFI intake it would cost more than a vic jr, PLUS the nitrous distribution would suck. Keep in mind that car went 9.40s, so the EFI components would have to support that.

what size injector would that motor require?
what carb was on it? and u adjusted the dist. for timing correct?


I'd make the inj. bungs 20.00
2 walbros 180.00
EEC 5 ...a stock maf will support that engine, I do believe
sct track pack 500.00

[Sean]

Well since you pose the question.

1 duraspark ford distributor locked out. $50
1 GM 7 pin Ignition control module $50
1 TPI 1227730 TPI ECM $50
1 Moates adapter $35
1 29c256 eprom $5
1 Donor harness from JY $75

As for injectors and stuff. Depends on how badas the motor was but I figure that was a 550hp motor so a set of cheap 38pph injectors for SC 3800 could have been used $200 and fial rail stock is like $50 for both rails and bungs are $10 each.

Gut a holley 4bbl Carb for use as a TB $100 for a 850 or so.

Maybe $700 total without really trying to skimp to much could be done for less however with some serious pick a part scrounging.

Knowledge to make it all work. Priceless.

as for ignition digital 7 with multi retards. Program the EFI for best power on motor tune the digital 7 for nitrous.

You could also have use a 4bbl holley TBI with 90pph injectors in it and a cheap TPI fuel pump and had plenty of fuel volume. those TBI's can be had for 200-400 and would save the cost of injectors. Like a carb without all the extra modification. A few mods to a 1227747 ECM out of a fullsize pickup and it runs those TBI's with no problems.

Just throwing ideas out there.

It can be done but it requires alot of knowledge of electronics and GM EFI systems to be made to work. theoretically SD ford systems could be made to work as well using almost all shelf ford parts.

You do not need cylinder trims but they can make life alot easier at times.



Well normally you use the blue just for the nitrous and the mallory or something for the motor when using a carb setup.

I'm not arguing really, just debating it the way I remember it last time I thought about it. I'm sure you probably know more about an EFI/nitrous combo than I do, but we just had to make these decisions in 07 with the Pinks car. Tell me how you'd have gone that fast with EFI for that money?

That was a 351w, vic jr intake, big shot plate, mallory 140 I think, and a holly blue.

Now for efi the way you describe it, we'd have to convert the victor for injector bungs, buy fuel rails, buy a GOOD pump, buy big injectors, buy engine management, etc. To use factory EFI we'd need a custom chip and big ass MAF meter also.

If you used an EFI intake it would cost more than a vic jr, PLUS the nitrous distribution would suck. Keep in mind that car went 9.40s, so the EFI components would have to support that.

[Fryguy302]

what size injector would that motor require?
what carb was on it? and u adjusted the dist. for timing correct?


I can't remember it wasn't a dominator or anything crazy though. The distributor was adjusted for timing. I think 42's would support that motor easy, but the $150 price you mention above is a hell of a deal for big injectors.


I'd make the inj. bungs 20.00
2 walbros 180.00
EEC 5 ...a stock maf will support that engine, I do believe
sct track pack 500.00

OK, but you realize that not everyone can drill/fit/weld bungs in an aluminum intake though, right? That's a few hundred bucks worth of work at most machine shops.

Then we'd have to buy an eec V and harness and MAF (at least a few hundred) and an intake elbow and a throttle body. And then somebody would have to figure out how to strip an EEC V harness and install it in an old T-bird. Hell aren't you selling a TB and elbow like this for like $400 on this board?

[BLKHAWK]

I can't remember it wasn't a dominator or anything crazy though. The distributor was adjusted for timing. I think 42's would support that motor easy, but the $150 price you mention above is a hell of a deal for big injectors.



OK, but you realize that not everyone can drill/fit/weld bungs in an aluminum intake though, right? That's a few hundred bucks worth of work at most machine shops.

Then we'd have to buy an eec V and harness and MAF (at least a few hundred) and an intake elbow and a throttle body. And then somebody would have to figure out how to strip an EEC V harness and install it in an old T-bird. Hell aren't you selling a TB and elbow like this for like $400 on this board?
yes sir I am selling a T.B and elbow but it could be done cheaper than that.
If you can build a 9.40 car simple wiring and welding shouldn't be much of a problem. keep in mind I'm trying to do this with ford engine management. as sean has stated this could be done much much cheaper with factory gm parts
and some knowledge.

[fogged10]

street car! over a 1000 miles hauling a trailer and ran as quick as 7.64! RUNNING A CARB SET UP!

YouTube - Ride along with Drag Week 2007 Winner

[Fryguy302]

Gut a holley 4bbl Carb for use as a TB $100 for a 850 or so.



How? What do you do about the TPS?

yes sir I am selling a T.B and elbow but it could be done cheaper than that.
If you can build a 9.40 car simple wiring and welding shouldn't be much of a problem. keep in mind I'm trying to do this with ford engine management. as sean has stated this could be done much much cheaper with factory gm parts
and some knowledge.

I didn't build that 9.40 car but I'm pretty sure it didn't require the knowledge it would take to set up an EEC harness, especially an EEC V one.

And again, how would you tune any of these? Especially the Ford SD setup. I guess that SCT track pack you referenced earlier would do it if it was the newer stuff.

[1bad Lad]

Well since you pose the question.

1 duraspark ford distributor locked out. $50
1 GM 7 pin Ignition control module $50
1 TPI 1227730 TPI ECM $50
1 Moates adapter $35
1 29c256 eprom $5
1 Donor harness from JY $75

As for injectors and stuff. Depends on how badas the motor was but I figure that was a 550hp motor so a set of cheap 38pph injectors for SC 3800 could have been used $200 and fial rail stock is like $50 for both rails and bungs are $10 each.

Gut a holley 4bbl Carb for use as a TB $100 for a 850 or so.

Maybe $700 total without really trying to skimp to much could be done for less however with some serious pick a part scrounging.

Knowledge to make it all work. Priceless.

as for ignition digital 7 with multi retards. Program the EFI for best power on motor tune the digital 7 for nitrous.

You could also have use a 4bbl holley TBI with 90pph injectors in it and a cheap TPI fuel pump and had plenty of fuel volume. those TBI's can be had for 200-400 and would save the cost of injectors. Like a carb without all the extra modification. A few mods to a 1227747 ECM out of a fullsize pickup and it runs those TBI's with no problems.

Just throwing ideas out there.

It can be done but it requires alot of knowledge of electronics and GM EFI systems to be made to work. theoretically SD ford systems could be made to work as well using almost all shelf ford parts.

You do not need cylinder trims but they can make life alot easier at times.

oh damn good thinkin sean.....i don't think anyone can argue with for the money....and hey ya'll can even still use one of them fuel leakin carburators.....wouldn't that be some shit....that would confuse the shit outta some people....lol would look like some smart dumb hillbilly put that shit together......lmao i'd put some decoy fuel lines right up to the carb just to fuck with poeple....

[Sean]

TPS isn't needed in a drag car. But you could mount a D sweep off of a TBI truck TBI pretty easily.

You can tune the TPI systems with many of the available freeware programs out there like tunerpro.

It takes a tremendous amount of knowledge to do something like what I mentioned but it isn't that difficult to do once you understand the basics of how everything works.

the 4bbl Holley 950 cfm TBI would have been my prefernce for the motor in the Tbird. first off becuase it uses a standard hooley carb flange. Secondly it doesn't require any fabrication to make it work outside of 2 fuel line with almost every popular intake manifold out there and it would have been alot cheaper then a port system. it would also mate up well to the factory throttle cable using standard carb linkage parts.

the only caveat to using the holley TBI is which ecm to use and then modifying the injector drivers to run the extra 2 injectors. It only requires a changed in the sense resistor for the peak hold chip in the ecm and a better transistor as well as 2 jumper wires for the extra current it would draw. Outside of that it is pretty easy and the pcm mods are covered on the thirdgen.org diy prom message board area.

again though the knowledge of how to make it all work is where the hidden costs are if you do not have it. but i will say it is out there if you look.


How? What do you do about the TPS?



I didn't build that 9.40 car but I'm pretty sure it didn't require the knowledge it would take to set up an EEC harness, especially an EEC V one.

And again, how would you tune any of these? Especially the Ford SD setup. I guess that SCT track pack you referenced earlier would do it if it was the newer stuff.

[1bad Lad]

could put a tps inside the car right by the gas pedal. it may take a little custom bracketry but shouldn't be to hard. or finagle it right to the carburator.

[Sean]

easier to mount it opposite the throttlelinkage on the carb on the choke side of the carb.


could put a tps inside the car right by the gas pedal. it may take a little custom bracketry but shouldn't be to hard. or finagle it right to the carburator.

[johnquick302]

easier to mount it opposite the throttlelinkage on the carb on the choke side of the carb.

can you show me a fast car with the setup you were talking about?

[johnquick302]

Exactly it was my bad I couldn't afford to build the car the way I wanted. the car i"m basing my opinions off made 700rwhp through a th400

is that one of those 700rwhp 12sec cars?

[Sean]

No but just becuase it hans't been done doesn;t mean it won;t work it just means it is tricky to do and hasn't been done. Thats about it.If you are talking about the TPS Carb conversion it has been done on some 9 second cards before porpuse built 4bbl TBI's hit the market some years ago. IIRC there were some guys running low 9's NA like that but i can;t remeber who it was or what the combo was.

If I can remeber i will post it up.


can you show me a fast car with the setup you were talking about?

[Fryguy302]

All I know is we did have a chance to have this challenge when we built two cheap cars for pinks, obviously cheap = nitrous. One team chose EFI, one team chose a carb. That t-bird is faster despite being heavier and having worse aero. The biggest reason is probably that the carb/bigshot plate works so well. The nitrous distribution on a factory EFI intake sucks.

[Sean]

we had less compression a much smaller camshaft and definately a big disadvantage in the nitrous department.even at similar jetting we definately got alot less power for the amount of spray we attemped to use. But they were both very fast for being very budget built cars.

All I know is we did have a chance to have this challenge when we built two cheap cars for pinks, obviously cheap = nitrous. One team chose EFI, one team chose a carb. That t-bird is faster despite being heavier and having worse aero. The biggest reason is probably that the carb/bigshot plate works so well. The nitrous distribution on a factory EFI intake sucks.

[Fryguy302]

definately a big disadvantage in the nitrous department.even at similar jetting we definately got alot less power for the amount of spray we attemped to use.

That's the point I was trying to make. You could have thrown a GM carb intake and a big shot plate on it and had what we had :)

But they were both very fast for being very budget built cars.

For sure, I agree.

[1BADAIR]

is that one of those 700rwhp 12sec cars?
hey hey hey
I resemble that remark

[Sean]

I wanted a direct port. that would have rocked.

That's the point I was trying to make. You could have thrown a GM carb intake and a big shot plate on it and had what we had :)



For sure, I agree.

[DOUGHBOY RACING]

is that one of those 700rwhp 12sec cars?Hell I will be honest mine has about 475 at the crank and runs 14.90 and this is a really mild small block cause I planned it and everything matches so it works, Just remember planning is next to Godliness LOL

[johnquick302]

Hell I will be honest mine has about 475 at the crank and runs 14.90 and this is a really mild small block cause I planned it and everything matches so it works, Just remember planning is next to Godliness LOL

how do you know it makes 475 at the crank? with 14.90ets that thing would have to weigh 5000-6000lbs.

[1BADAIR]

thats not what that used to say

[DOUGHBOY RACING]

LOL

[fogged10]

well i decided to go with a single stage big shot plate vs my dual stage edelbrock kit! thanks for all the info guys!

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/bob1987/DSC01246.jpg

[BLKHAWK]

well i decided to go with a single stage big shot plate vs my dual stage edelbrock kit! thanks for all the info guys!

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/bob1987/DSC01246.jpg

look out team_dickface

[johnquick302]

well i decided to go with a single stage big shot plate vs my dual stage edelbrock kit! thanks for all the info guys!

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/bob1987/DSC01246.jpg

why did you not start it yet? what are you waiting for?

[fogged10]

why did you not start it yet? what are you waiting for?

i have to make some fuel lines-coil wires and a few other odds and ends then it will be ready to go!

[DOUGHBOY RACING]

That car looks Bad Ass

[dante1120]

well i decided to go with a single stage big shot plate vs my dual stage edelbrock kit! thanks for all the info guys!

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/bob1987/DSC01246.jpgLooks sweet,but now we would like 5 cars and the leave.:smokin:

[388Monte]

What heads are on that motor?

[dante1120]

they look like about 9.00 heads!:smokin:

[fogged10]

What heads are on that motor?

brodix

[fogged10]

they look like about 9.00 heads!:smokin:

shit i wish! i just hope to make a 9sec pass on motor

[fogged10]

Looks sweet,but now we would like 5 cars and the leave.:smokin:

great so you are going to give me 5 and the hit? sounds good to me!:cheers:

[dante1120]

great so you are going to give me 5 and the hit? sounds good to me!:cheers:LOL....noooooooo there are some rumors about that motor and we only went 10.77 with his car and its going to be the exact motor in a lighter car.The stang should be about 500#s lighter, your faster I can tell by the look of it:blush:its going to be fast!:cheers: