Cause of the Subprime mortgage crisis

[DBK]

Apparently Mapoftifsaohfsozho is right and I'm wrong.

Is the financial crisis in the banking and lending industry known as the subprime mortgage crisis caused by subprime mortgage lending and derivatives trading, which caused investment banks, financial firms and lenders to collapse?

Or was it triggered by a recession brought on by high gas prices caused by the Iraq war?

[orangejuiced86]

High gas prices totally.

The mess we are in had nothing to do with the shady mortgages that were being handed out like Halloween candy.

[MapoftaziFoSho]

You're NOT looking at the bigger fucking picture! It wasn't JUST the Iraq war, it wasn't JUST the sub-prime mortgage mess!

It was deficit spending, it was the high cost of fuel, it was the destruction of the middle class, it was the devalue of the dollar!

We were in a recession LONG before this financial crisis hit. The sub-prime mortgage mess accounts for far less than half of all the foreclosures in 2008...so you can't honestly say that was the sole cause of this catastrophe.

[ReiKo]

Apparently Mapoftifsaohfsozho is right and I'm wrong.

Is the financial crisis in the banking and lending industry known as the subprime mortgage crisis caused by subprime mortgage lending and derivatives trading, which caused investment banks, financial firms and lenders to collapse?

Or was it triggered by a recession brought on by high gas prices caused by the Iraq war?

Is this serious?!! :lol:

[MapoftaziFoSho]

One, I never equated the sub-prime mess to the Iraq war. The was DBK trying to make me look like an ass.

I stated that the entire overall economic recession, going back, MUCH farther than the Sub-Prime mess that fucking started to unravel in September.

[cjmatt]

hahaha map of tazi for the "LUZ"

my GF drives a little econobox and doenst drive very far, so the difference in the gas prices havent really hit her much...she is still having truouble making her mortgage payments due to the mess she was allowed to be put in.

Is she to blame, yes i partially believe so, I dunno who in their right mind would approve someone a mortgage payment over half of her monthly income, but she was the one who ultimately agreed to it...this had nothing to do with a single summer of high gas prices.

[stalked_R/T]

Where's the Soros caused this option?

[MapoftaziFoSho]

hahaha map of tazi for the "LUZ"

my GF drives a little econobox and doenst drive very far, so the difference in the gas prices havent really hit her much...she is still having truouble making her mortgage payments due to the mess she was allowed to be put in.

Is she to blame, yes i partially believe so, I dunno who in their right mind would approve someone a mortgage payment over half of her monthly income, but she was the one who ultimately agreed to it...this had nothing to do with a single summer of high gas prices.

Seriously, you don't get it. IT WASN'T JUST YOUR PERSONAL COSTS AT THE PUMP! Single summer...HAHHAHA

[MapoftaziFoSho]

DBK, go back to that other thread and fucking find where I said the sub-prime mess was directly caused by high fuel prices and deficit spending.

I didn't.

I did, however, say that the sub-prime mess isn't the sole factor in this catastrophe. Jobs were shed and homes were being foreclosed on long before the sub-prime mess unraveled.

[jsxtreme]

:lol: at this thread. Awesome DBK.

[DBK]

One, I never equated the sub-prime mess to the Iraq war. The was DBK trying to make me look like an ass.

You are a total, backpeddling bullshitter.


I could completely make an argument for how the Iraq war was a catalyst for our economic problems...but I don't have the time.


I said that deficit spending and the increase in fuel costs were the catalyst that caused this situation.




The cost of fuel prompted the recession, which spun us into the sub-prime mess.



So what caused people to get behind on their payments? Oh, I don't know maybe a weakening economy and job losses going back to 2006. All of which was because of the increased price in oil.

Your own posts make it clear you have no idea what you're talking about, or which platform to jump off from one argument to the next. Let's read that one more time:



The cost of fuel prompted the recession, which spun us into the sub-prime mess.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

[BimmerBlues]

Leave the poor "Economic Populist" alone. :) I love how the media is throwing those words around all over the place now. Why don't they just say socialism?

[MapoftaziFoSho]

You're the divisive bastard in all of this. You started another thread because you wanted to be vindicated. Then you twist my statements around...

Seems to me like you have a bit of a napoleon complex...

Now, economic problem is a pretty broad statement encompassing everything this country experienced prior to and including the sub-prime mess.

Also, and I stand by this, the sub-prime mess accounts for LESS THAN HALF OF THE FORECLOSURES IN 2008.

The sub-prime mess didn't cause retail sales to decline, or GDP growth to slow, or automobile sales to plummet. Well, it did further, but all of those things were occurring LONG before. Consumer confidence was in the shitter long before the sub-prime mess imploded. Home values were in decline before the sub-prime mess.

I could go on...


So nothing was going wrong in the economy before this sub-prime mess began unraveling?

High fuel prices didn't have any negative effect on the economy...none. Is that what you're saying?

The economy wasn't slowing down before this...people weren't falling behind on their monthly payments because the cost of everything was going up faster than the rate of inflation. The populous of the country wasn't curtailing their spending because of the increased cost for oil...

The fact that we have blown $3 trillion dollars in Iraq makes it a pretty substantial part of our deficit spending, but there is more to this situation than that.

What caused the guys on the futures market to drive the cost of oil up? Volatility in the middle east perhaps? Was it really the prospect that we had hit peak oil? Was it the increase in global demand? Which, I might add, was increased because of the need for oil to run this military campaign.

What about the lower value of the dollar? What effect did that have on the cost of oil? Why did the value of the dollar go down? It couldn't have been because of the war in Iraq or our massive deficit spending. No...none of that had anything to do with this...

You are simply looking at the sub-prime mortgage mess as though it is the sole contributing factor to this meltdown. It's not.

A great many things have happened to cause this.



My entire point was that this sub-prime mess was NOT the only issue that spun us into this.

I mis-typed ONCE in all of this:


Originally Posted by MapoftaziFoSho http://motownmuscle.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://motownmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1541885#post1541885)
The cost of fuel prompted the recession, which spun us into the sub-prime mess.

[mdhmi]

The real cause was bad governance and policy at every layer of government (including the fed, treasury, congress, etc) as well as in the board rooms at numerous banks and investment outfits.

There was too much money in the system (caused by artificially low interest rates and lax lending / options standards). The oversupply of money was chasing a return which means it had to be lent out / invested (riskily).

This lead to the .com, oil, and housing bubbles.

And the sad thing is now that this bad fiscal policy has been unmasked our leaders are trying to fix the problem by propping up the banks so they can continue to lend foolishly.

We know from history that the market will always eventually find an equilibrium, that's not something government can force.

[INSTG8R]

The real cause was bad governance and policy at every layer of government (including the fed, treasury, congress, etc) as well as in the board rooms at numerous banks and investment outfits.

There was too much money in the system (caused by artificially low interest rates and lax lending / options standards). The oversupply of money was chasing a return which means it had to be lent out / invested (riskily).

This lead to the .com, oil, and housing bubbles.

And the sad thing is now that this bad fiscal policy has been unmasked our leaders are trying to fix the problem by propping up the banks so they can continue to lend foolishly.

We know from history that the market will always eventually find an equilibrium, that's not something government can force.


Why doesn't the government understand this? They refuse to let the market reach that equilibrium without interfering. Like Obama said, only the government can save us now. lol Same thing with John Kerry talking about how we, the people, don't know how to properly spend our money and should be told how to do so. :rolleyes:

[DBK]

You're the divisive bastard in all of this. You started another thread because you wanted to be vindicated. Then you twist my statements around...[/B][/I]

How am I being divisive? We're of differing opinions and I wanted to see what the people thought. I did not twist your statements around. I quoted them.

You said you mistyped once.


I could completely make an argument for how the Iraq war was a catalyst for our economic problems...but I don't have the time.

The Iraq war was the catalyst.


I said that deficit spending and the increase in fuel costs were the catalyst that caused this situation.


Deficit spending was the catalyst.



The cost of fuel prompted the recession, which spun us into the sub-prime mess.


Fuel Prices were the catalyst.


So what caused people to get behind on their payments? Oh, I don't know maybe a weakening economy and job losses going back to 2006. All of which was because of the increased price in oil.

Again, fuel prices were the catalyst.

Just know when to fold em.

[MapoftaziFoSho]

All of the above. They were all relevant contributing factors. It's all related.

[DBK]

All of the above. They were all relevant contributing factors. It's all related.

No, gas, Iraq, and deficit spending did not contribute to the subprime mortgage crisis. That's why it's called the subprime mortgage crisis. Not the gas, Iraq, deficit spending and subprime mortgage crisis.

[MapoftaziFoSho]

No, gas, Iraq, and deficit spending did not contribute to the subprime mortgage crisis. That's why it's called the subprime mortgage crisis. Not the gas, Iraq, deficit spending and subprime mortgage crisis.

Holy crap man. Seriously, you don't seem to get what I'm saying. This economic crisis is bigger than the sub-prime mortgage crisis.

We're talking about separate events that all have contributed to this mess.

[DBK]

And you don't get that the SUBPRIME MORTGAGE CRISIS is by far the OVERRIDING BURDEN ON THE GLOBAL ECONOMIC SYSTEM AND IT WOULD HAVE OCCURRED WHETHER OR NOT WE SPENT $1 OR $1 TRILLION IN IRAQ CAUSING THE PRICE OF FUEL TO RISE. ALL THIS BULLSHIT THAT "OH A BUNCH OF STUFF CONTRIBUTED" IS STUPID.

Like I said, when you're dying of a shotgun blast, make sure the doctor notes that you had a nasty mosquito bite on the autopsy report. Definitely contributed :lol:

[mdhmi]

I wonder if this could be why:

http://motownmuscle.com/forums/files/8124995acab7f46f.png

http://www.mdhmi.com/pics/smilies/mmm.gif

[DBK]

Dude, high gas prices and deficit spending. :lol:

[WhiteHawk]

If you want to put one cause on it all, I would say GREED.

-Geoff

[wikdsvt]

You're NOT looking at the bigger fucking picture! It wasn't JUST the Iraq war, it wasn't JUST the sub-prime mortgage mess!

It was deficit spending, it was the high cost of fuel, it was the destruction of the middle class, it was the devalue of the dollar!

We were in a recession LONG before this financial crisis hit. The sub-prime mortgage mess accounts for far less than half of all the foreclosures in 2008...so you can't honestly say that was the sole cause of this catastrophe.

One of the main, but not well known, reason we went to war with IRAQ is tht Saddam was asking OPEC to value the price of a barrel of oil on the EURO, instead of the U.S. Dollar, like it has been forever. This would have caused a total collapse of our economy, foreign bond and loan holders would have cashed in and created a run on the banks. From there it just escalates.

You really really really need to know what the hell you are talking about, before you open talk. Yes you are entitled to your opinion.


ALMOST EVERY FORECLOSURE I handled in the last year had an ARM. (sub-prime market) to say that far less than 1/2 of the foreclosures in 2008 is not caused by the subprime market is... well just stupid.

[wikdsvt]

i wonder if this could be why:

http://motownmuscle.com/forums/files/8124995acab7f46f.png

http://www.mdhmi.com/pics/smilies/mmm.gif

clinton
"every american deserves a house"

[wikdsvt]

Also, and I stand by this, the sub-prime mess accounts for LESS THAN HALF OF THE FORECLOSURES IN 2008.


FAIL.

[MapoftaziFoSho]

One of the main, but not well known, reason we went to war with IRAQ is tht Saddam was asking OPEC to value the price of a barrel of oil on the EURO, instead of the U.S. Dollar, like it has been forever. This would have caused a total collapse of our economy, foreign bond and loan holders would have cashed in and created a run on the banks. From there it just escalates.

You really really really need to know what the hell you are talking about, before you open talk. Yes you are entitled to your opinion.


ALMOST EVERY FORECLOSURE I handled in the last year had an ARM. (sub-prime market) to say that far less than 1/2 of the foreclosures in 2008 is not caused by the subprime market is... well just stupid.

That is great that everyone that YOU personally handled was an ARM, but I've read different numbers for the national foreclosure totals in 2008.

Sadly, I cannot find that data at the moment, but when I get a free moment I will find it.

As for the OPEC scare, I'd love to see some information on that.

[DBK]

You always seem to have time to post, but never time to find facts :lol:

[ReiKo]

:popcorn:

[stalked_R/T]

I still blame Soros

[steve581581]

it was caused by the banks if you ask me... they are the ones who control credit... if nobody can get it they cant buy anything driving prices down so that people can... also there are a ton of people defaulting on their mortgages because they owe twice as much as the house is worth

[GTPprix]

Hi, I make $10,000 a year at mcdonalds but I'm a minority so I'd like a $400,000 mortgage please, KTHNXBAI.

[DBK]

My work is done here.

[MapoftaziFoSho]

I never said that this was the sole cause of the sub-prime mess.

I've been saying this economic mess is bigger than JUST the sub-prime mess. We shed some 1.2 million jobs in 2008 before this sub-prime market imploded. I've made my case with the facts: high fuel costs, high commodity costs, a decrease in consumer spending, low consumer confidence and the slowing of growth and our GDP.

Welcome to the perfect storm.

If boiled down to the most basic cause, I forget you mentioned it first, greed.

[wikdsvt]

I never said that this was the sole cause of the sub-prime mess.

I've been saying this economic mess is bigger than JUST the sub-prime mess. We shed some 1.2 million jobs in 2008 before this sub-prime market imploded. I've made my case with the facts: high fuel costs, high commodity costs, a decrease in consumer spending, low consumer confidence and the slowing of growth and our GDP.

Welcome to the perfect storm.

If boiled down to the most basic cause, I forget you mentioned it first, greed.

where are those facts to support your ramblings?

[MapoftaziFoSho]

where are those facts to support your ramblings?

The 1.2 million
http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/07/news/economy/jobs_october/?postversion=2008110711

http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/09/news/economy/jobs_december/

[wikdsvt]

The 1.2 million
http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/07/news/economy/jobs_october/?postversion=2008110711

http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/09/news/economy/jobs_december/

the sub prime market exploded in 2007.
It's been ongoing since.

try again.

[DBK]

You're a piece of shit. I never fucking said that this was the sole cause of the sub-prime mess.

I've been saying this economic mess is bigger than JUST the sub-prime mess. We shed some 1.2 million jobs in 2008 before this sub-prime market imploded. I've made my case with the facts: high fuel costs, high commodity costs, a decrease in consumer spending, low consumer confidence and the slowing of growth and our GDP.

Welcome to the perfect storm.

If boiled down to the most basic cause, I forget you mentioned it first, greed.

:lol:

It's really not. Minus the subprime mortgage meltdown, this is a very mild recession limited to the United States. The global economic meltdown still has nothing to do with Iraq, gas prices, or deficit spending. I lived in the UK when gas was 4x what it costs here now FIFTEEN years ago. Global. Economic. Meltdown. Subprime. Mortgage. Crisis.

Look on the bright side, two retards agree with you.

:lol:

[Foolsgold80z]

:lol:

Look on the bright side, two retards agree with you.

:lol:

:gr_jest:

[91Notch]

Subprime loans