UAW contract negotiations

[LTLHOMER]

Really? Unions aren't needed? I disagree. There are plenty of times in my field that the union is needed to protect us from being abused, or protecting our pay.

I find it amazing that people on here continue to bitch that UAW workers shouldn't make this much, they are unskilled, people with degrees make less, etc. Once again, it sounds jealousy to me. Instead of people complaining how much someone else makes, and saying that they should make less, maybe you shold be complaining that other fields should make more? Just like Jasper said, he gets his raises based off his performance. So if a UAW worker makes more than you (nt you Jasper, but you as in a general person) with a college degree, maybe your should have better performance or negotiate better pay.

This is why the average U.S. household pay has dropped - collectively people want other brought down them them or below them, instead of trying to raise themselves above others. The middle class that was based largely off manufacturing, has gone away. Here is an opportunity to bring the working, middle class back, but yet no one wants to.

I get abused all the time. Only protection I have is my ability to find somewhere else to get abused less. lol

[natzke4]

Really? Unions aren't needed? I disagree. There are plenty of times in my field that the union is needed to protect us from being abused, or protecting our pay.

I find it amazing that people on here continue to bitch that UAW workers shouldn't make this much, they are unskilled, people with degrees make less, etc. Once again, it sounds jealousy to me. Instead of people complaining how much someone else makes, and saying that they should make less, maybe you shold be complaining that other fields should make more? Just like Jasper said, he gets his raises based off his performance. So if a UAW worker makes more than you (nt you Jasper, but you as in a general person) with a college degree, maybe your should have better performance or negotiate better pay.

This is why the average U.S. household pay has dropped - collectively people want other brought down them them or below them, instead of trying to raise themselves above others. The middle class that was based largely off manufacturing, has gone away. Here is an opportunity to bring the working, middle class back, but yet no one wants to.

I guess most educated people think that $15/hr is fair because ANYONE can come in an do your job. I'd be willing to bet that if you gave me 2 weeks and I could do your job. I would give you a year and chances are you couldn't do mine. That is why people in professions don't sympathize with you. Engineers, IT professionals, business professionals ect.. don't see your argument and never will.

[DetroitStyle]

Their pay really isn't that bad at all, especially when you consider that other occupations such as EMTs and police officers start out near the same, and oftentimes less. They are making a livable wage. They are also paid overtime. If a guy is working 60 hours per week on Tier 2, he is clearing almost $60,000 per year. I know some people with degrees in salaried positions that work the same kind of hours for less money.

Agreed. And, considering that the proposed contract they voted down included nearly an $8/hr raise over 4 years... That same 60 hours would be close to $80k it's ridiculous to refuse it


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[89-LX]

I guess most educated people think that $15/hr is fair because ANYONE can come in an do your job. I'd be willing to bet that if you gave me 2 weeks and I could do your job. I would give you a year and chances are you couldn't do mine. That is why people in professions don't sympathize with you. Engineers, IT professionals, business professionals ect.. don't see your argument and never will.

The anybody can due it logic is flawed. It's not a matter of doing the job, but it's for how long and what toll does it take on your body? And I'm willing to bet that you couldn't do my job in 2 weeks.

And what I see are people in professions saying that they don't even make that money with an education. So maybe instead of thinking that the UAW workers should take a pay cut, or shouldn't be paid more, maybe they should turn it around and fight for a higher wage themselves.

Agreed. And, considering that the proposed contract they voted down included nearly an $8/hr raise over 4 years... That same 60 hours would be close to $80k it's ridiculous to refuse it


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Not everyone has the option for OT like others that are forced into mandatory OT. So basing an assumption of 60 hour work weeks, it flawed as well. You have to use 40 as your base line. Like my profession, I work on average 28 hours a week, which is a lot. Typical people in my profession work about 22-23 hours a week. Huge difference on take home between the two.

[Stalker]

Really? Unions aren't needed? I disagree. There are plenty of times in my field that the union is needed to protect us from being abused, or protecting our pay.

I find it amazing that people on here continue to bitch that UAW workers shouldn't make this much, they are unskilled, people with degrees make less, etc. Once again, it sounds jealousy to me. Instead of people complaining how much someone else makes, and saying that they should make less, maybe you shold be complaining that other fields should make more? Just like Jasper said, he gets his raises based off his performance. So if a UAW worker makes more than you (nt you Jasper, but you as in a general person) with a college degree, maybe your should have better performance or negotiate better pay.

This is why the average U.S. household pay has dropped - collectively people want other brought down them them or below them, instead of trying to raise themselves above others. The middle class that was based largely off manufacturing, has gone away. Here is an opportunity to bring the working, middle class back, but yet no one wants to.

This notion that people are jealous is rather moronic. No one is jealous that people are forced into essentially a medieval caste system. What I am though is appalled at the entitlement attitude and the abuse that the Unions force on the people they represent. Instead of looking at it like companies abusing people, why not look at it with an attitude of self responsibility. If I started a new job and knew that despite my efforts, hard work, and dedication I would be the first person to be laid off and that I had no power to negotiate my income based on my own self worth I wouldn't feel any need or desire to work hard and perform the best I could. Instead of coming in, showing your resume and personal accomplishments and demanding a fair salary (And if you don't get it, going somewhere else that will appreciate you for what you offer) you walk in, fill in some boxes and get offered the job and are then told exactly what you will make and how often that will change. So no, people aren't jealous of $15 an hour, they are irritated with spoiled people who think they can use the collective to better themselves despite being lazy and incompetent and if they don't get their way, they throw a tantrum on the side of the road.

And in this day and age, the entire point of the union, to protect the worker, is completely useless. We have more devices that record data and you can't crap purple turds without the evening news knowing about it. Laws are in place to keep employers from putting people in danger as well as mistreating them. The only people the unions benefit are the people who have no real worth and want to use the work of others to skate by on.

So no, not jealous at all. Irritated/frustrated with the childlessness of the unions and the downstream impact it will have on the people surrounding them.

[89-LX]

This notion that people are jealous is rather moronic. No one is jealous that people are forced into essentially a medieval caste system. What I am though is appalled at the entitlement attitude and the abuse that the Unions force on the people they represent. Instead of looking at it like companies abusing people, why not look at it with an attitude of self responsibility. If I started a new job and knew that despite my efforts, hard work, and dedication I would be the first person to be laid off and that I had no power to negotiate my income based on my own self worth I wouldn't feel any need or desire to work hard and perform the best I could. Instead of coming in, showing your resume and personal accomplishments and demanding a fair salary (And if you don't get it, going somewhere else that will appreciate you for what you offer) you walk in, fill in some boxes and get offered the job and are then told exactly what you will make and how often that will change. So no, people aren't jealous of $15 an hour, they are irritated with spoiled people who think they can use the collective to better themselves despite being lazy and incompetent and if they don't get their way, they throw a tantrum on the side of the road.

And in this day and age, the entire point of the union, to protect the worker, is completely useless. We have more devices that record data and you can't crap purple turds without the evening news knowing about it. Laws are in place to keep employers from putting people in danger as well as mistreating them. The only people the unions benefit are the people who have no real worth and want to use the work of others to skate by on.

So no, not jealous at all. Irritated/frustrated with the childlessness of the unions and the downstream impact it will have on the people surrounding them.

I disagree. Lets just take for an example the unions out of the equation. Lets think hypothetically here, and say there was no longer any collective bargaining out there. Major corporations decide to do a rate reset, and lower the salary of your position by $25,000. Let's say it used to be $100,000 a year, now the average pay is $75,000 across all the businesses doing that. Then a few years later, the same thing happens, they lower the pay down to $50,000. You will get your outliers that will pay $60,000, but those used to pay $120,000. No matter how hard you work, or how successful you can be at your job, you know the most that this field will pay is $60,000 vs what used to be $120,000. To make matters worse you have people from Asia and India coming in, and are willing to do your job for $40,000. You have no protecting of a CBA to protect your job and wages.

Let me guess, you will say that you will switch jobs, and go into another higher paying field? Guess what? Same thing happens there. When does it stop? It's already happened to this country, and no one is willing to take a stand and fight for it. It's the lets step on each other for the betterment of myself society now. All while we call the others a self entitled generation. There are so downfalls to the union, but to say that only the union has this problem is very fallible. If you don't think that upper management (not all), and the board will not look for a way to cut down on the labor force compensation to pad their own, you need to get your hand out of the sand.

And for you to say that the union is no longer needed to protect the employee is useless, is an asinine comment. This year alone, I've already had to file 4 grievances against the company for violation of our contract. Guess what? Everyone paid out. This year alone, I've had the company try to pull some stuff that is illegal, and I've had the union step in to protect me. Even though it's illegal, if I refused to do it, they could have fired me for it. That's the great thing that people forget about an at will employment status. I've also known others that have made mistakes (we all make mistakes, but we learn from them) who could also be fired, but had union protection. Now are there people that the union protects that they shouldn't? Of course, and I don't agree with it, but it's a two way street as management does the exact same thing. Our government does the exact same thing. I wish it wasn't this way, but it's a by product of being human I guess.


I'd also like to address this comment:

Irritated/frustrated with the childlessness of the unions and the downstream impact it will have on the people surrounding them.

What do you think a professional airline pilot should make per year, flying a jet with passengers on board with tickets bought on Travelocity.com? If they aren't making what you think you think they make, do you think ticket prices should be raised to make up the difference, thus impacting people that want to travel and buy air tickets?

[natzke4]

Agreed. And, considering that the proposed contract they voted down included nearly an $8/hr raise over 4 years... That same 60 hours would be close to $80k it's ridiculous to refuse it


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If that was the deal they were getting and turned it down, then they should probably go back and finish high school!

[Tin]

And what I see are people in professions saying that they don't even make that money with an education. So maybe instead of thinking that the UAW workers should take a pay cut, or shouldn't be paid more, maybe they should turn it around and fight for a higher wage themselves.

I remember during my tenure at GM, there was talk about some of the IT staff unionizing and joining the UAW. Many of those guys worked very long hours, and were often on call if they weren't at the facility. They were salary, so they made the same regardless if they worked 40 or 80 hours per week. Their intentions weren't for a higher wage, but to be compensated for any time over 40 hours per week. I don't think anything came of it, as we would've read something about it by now.

[raroz28]

When I was a contractor at Ford, I felt I was underpaid. I truly believed I was worth more.

I sent my resume out and am now making over 50% more per year not including bonuses and amazing benefits.

Do the same and stop crying. If you think you are underpaid or deserve more and are not happy with your pay, go find another job.

You won't because you cannot.

End of story.

Your company owes you nothing but the pay and benefits that you agreed to.

[raroz28]

If I haven't mentioned it already, everything that the UAW guys spew is in the literature. It's almost religious in nature - indoctrinating. I have a UAW new hire welcome folder that was left in my desk when I started here and read through it.

I immediately knew where these arguments come from. You will usually only see eye to eye with them if you are with them. Nobody on the outside is going to buy into it, same as most of you wouldn't buy into the Mormon religion.